Practice to help move forward

[chedwerks]

I apologize if this may come across as a stupid thread to any of you, but to me it is extremely important, more than pickups or neck shape or color or amps etc. I am posting this here on the G&L forum for a reason. Many of you guys here are older than I am and far more experienced.(this is a compliment)
My question is this, how do you practice or change your mindset or what not to become a great guitar player. I am a good guitar player and I am proud of it, I worked hard for it, but some of you guys I am sure are great guitar players. I want to be great as well, and I am willing to work for it. 'Work hard' is great advice that got me to here, but what got you over the hump?

[sirmyghin]

Know your chord triads, and chord construction. As well as the their voicings , the 3 inversions, added tensions etc. Learn the scalar modes and how they sound respectively over a pedal. These have opened some doors for my thinking, I am still working with the modes.

Practice exercises/licks with a metronome that embody what you want to learn better, alternate picking across strings is a bit one for me I practice that a lot.

http://guitarteacher.files.wordpress.co ... -morse.jpg

^ that one is a really nice exercise.

I practice a lot of playing at speeds outside what I would enjoy too, but I try to keep myself thinking through practicies. Practicing outside what you need makes playing effortless, and less bounded. I hate being bounded by ability. Also try to play in different styles, they make you think funny.

[blargfromouterspace]

Chedwerks: I'm not that old (I'm 28), but the best way I've come across to become a better player (greatness eludes me for the time being ) is playing with other people. If you aren't in a band or even jamming with a couple of friends then I suggest you start, because:

# It's good practice at thinking on the spot. You can learn a whole lot of licks at home but until you learn how and when to drop them in a solo or work them into a song they're completely useless.

#You'll learn how to accompany someone

# You'll learn how to play WITH other musicians. This was such a valuable thing for me. I'm lucky enough to play with a wide variety of musicians from different musical backgrounds. By getting to know how everyone plays is a great way to develop not just as a band, but as a musician. You'll also pick up ideas from them, and vice-versa.

# You'll get a good idea of song structure/arrangements,

# You get to take lead breaks with a band behind you, not just a backing track.

# You'll develop your own voice as a musician. There's no better way to find out what you can or can't do, or what you do or don't like, than playing with other people. This will give you your style.

# Above all else, its more fun. Making music is like making love - it's more fun with someone else there


If you don't have any muso friends then you should work at developing your ear by working out how to play songs from the record, not by searching for tabs etc, and chart them up youself. Having a good ear is VERY important for being able to play the notes you hear in your head. Start off with basic songs, then work your way through some riffs, licks, solos etc.

Of course, learning the theory side of things is also important in playing with others - you don't want to be the guy saying "how do you play a B-flat 7th??". Don't be overwhelmed by it. Know your chords including some standard progressions ( I - IV - V et al) and the major/minor pentatonic scale and you'll do fine - that's all I know anyway. Anything else (modes and jazz....) will come with time.

[sirmyghin]

Chedwerks: I'm not that old (I'm 28), but the best way I've come across to become a better player (greatness eludes me for the time being ) is playing with other people. If you aren't in a band or even jamming with a couple of friends then I suggest you start, because:

This is pretty crucial, surprised I overlooked it. Must be as I play bass when I go out and jam .

[BillEvans1956]

This guy is very helpful too: http://www.justinguitar.com/

Bill

[sickbutnottired]

Blarg, I think you should write a book! This is some good advice, especially the having fun part. You can learn something positive from almost every situation, and some 'well, I won't try that.' things as well.

I think sirmy has some good ideas as well. I don't think I know all three inversions for every chord, I don't know. (Heck, I may not even know what an inversion is! To me they are just chords that have something other than the I for the root.) But I know a lot and they add a lot to my playing. Once I learn something, and focus on HOW it works and generally forget WHY it works and how I came to it. Same is true with my scales. I work on a mode a while, but then just add parts of it I like for color to the big scale in my head. The more you know about theory the better, for sure. But I need to spend a lot of time working on feel, and you can't do that by yourself all the time.

I am not great, but I have been improving for about 20 years. And figure I can continue for another 50 or so. I would also love to hear from others with more experience on this.

Edit: I have lifted some licks and riffs from justin as well. Really good stuff, i haven't looked at his theory stuff.

[blargfromouterspace]

Blarg, I think you should write a book! ...

I don't think I know all three inversions for every chord, I don't know. (Heck, I may not even know what an inversion is! To me they are just chords....

I plan to write a book, called "Waterslides Of The World", an account of my world travels and the waterslides I experience, but the publisher has to fund said travels and entry to water parks..... Ohhhhhhhh, you mean a music related book....


As for inversions, if you know 'E' in three different shapes, you know inversions.

[sirmyghin]

I think sirmy has some good ideas as well. I don't think I know all three inversions for every chord, I don't know. (Heck, I may not even know what an inversion is! To me they are just chords that have something other than the I for the root.) But I know a lot and they add a lot to my playing. Once I learn something, and focus on HOW it works and generally forget WHY it works and how I came to it. Same is true with my scales. I work on a mode a while, but then just add parts of it I like for color to the big scale in my head. The more you know about theory the better, for sure. But I need to spend a lot of time working on feel, and you can't do that by yourself all the time.

A quick lesson on inversions , this is how I remember things, after the root note though, you can voice them to fit the mood.

Major triad = 1 - 3 -5 (Minor triad has a flat 3rd).
Cmajor - C E G, the open C chord is C E G C E

1st inversion, 3rd is in the base, so something like E C G or E G C would be a voicing of the first inversion of C, I would say E G C is a bit more common. These chords are a bit weaker, sometimes used as passing chords (to get between 2 places while keeping a line moving in one direction, up or down).

2nd inversion, 5th is in the base, G C E C would be a fairly simple and common voicing, leaving out the first root is easily done. These have fair girth and can be quite pretty.

3rd inversion involves altering the root (C), and replacing the C in the bass, as par the major triad, with a major or minor 7th, or (probably) major 6th, so you take your original triad and make it b7 - 3 -5 or , A# - E - G in this case.


Hope that helps, this applies to all triads. The 2 I have not mentioned are Augmented (#5) and diminished (b3 b5).

[sickbutnottired]

A quick lesson on inversions , this is how I remember things, after the root note though, you can voice them to fit the mood.

Major triad = 1 - 3 -5 (Minor triad has a flat 3rd).
Cmajor - C E G, the open C chord is C E G C E

1st inversion, 3rd is in the base, so something like E C G or E G C would be a voicing of the first inversion of C, I would say E G C is a bit more common. These chords are a bit weaker, sometimes used as passing chords (to get between 2 places while keeping a line moving in one direction, up or down).

2nd inversion, 5th is in the base, G C E C would be a fairly simple and common voicing, leaving out the first root is easily done. These have fair girth and can be quite pretty.

3rd inversion involves altering the root (C), and replacing the C in the bass, as par the major triad, with a major or minor 7th, or (probably) major 6th, so you take your original triad and make it b7 - 3 -5 or , A# - E - G in this case.


Hope that helps, this applies to all triads. The 2 I have not mentioned are Augmented (#5) and diminished (b3 b5).

This is very interesting. I ran through this with my guitar last night, I only had a few minutes. So most of the fingerings that I use and think of as inversions are one of these. The one I couldn't totally make sense out of in my limited time is playing the relative minor chord which I always thought was an inversion.

There are also some really simple things that I don't think of as inversions - well like playing and open c chord and hitting the low e string. Or the most common one I use is just playing part of a chord, like an 'A' based bar chord and not hitting the root, or replacing the root, often with the III.

Anyway, the most interesting thing to me is that you and Blarg and I all seem to think of the same kind of things in much different ways on the same instrument! So to me, to get back to chedworks question, to get to be a great player you have to learn and then own a lot of these things. Being able to fit it in with the music is where the challenge and the magic is to me. I don't think there are any shortcuts to that, you just have to love to play and make it happen.

Thanks for sharing.

And Blarq, good luck with book project. I will buy it. Heck I'd bank roll it, except that I can't even afford the water park admission.

[blargfromouterspace]

There are also some really simple things that I don't think of as inversions - well like playing and open c chord and hitting the low e string. Or the most common one I use is just playing part of a chord, like an 'A' based bar chord and not hitting the root, or replacing the root, often with the III.

That's one of my favourite things to do too. In fact, I play partial chords (I suppose technically they're full chords because the I, III and V are all there) about 90% of the time. Changing the root around can change the feel of a song quite dramatically. For example, if you're in C, try playing the G chord with an A in the base (bass?) to get a nice resolve to the C.

I tend not to think in inversions, but rather 'that's an E of sorts'. I would get far too confused if I deliberately wanted to play a second inversion of a diminished 7th, but I suppose that's because I haven't learned a lot of the jargon and it's not second nature to me. I find a lot of the theory books are overly academic for my tastes.

Chedwerks: I hope this isn't confusing you!

[sirmyghin]

There are also some really simple things that I don't think of as inversions - well like playing and open c chord and hitting the low e string. Or the most common one I use is just playing part of a chord, like an 'A' based bar chord and not hitting the root, or replacing the root, often with the III.

!

Something I like about the way hard rock and metal go, is the power chords. No third. This leaves a HUGE amount of freedom to how you choose to play melodies, you can define any more you want really (Locrian is a tough sale though as it has the diminished 5th) and fit it to that. One sort of 'rule' is the more notes you put in a chord, the more confined the melody becomes. This is where stuff like your 'partial chords' are great.

In a chord progression, you don't need the 5th of a chord, and you don't need the root parsay either. The 3rd holds the most sway defining a chord WITHIN a progression. Pretty much the only time you see a chord without the 3rd is a suspended chord (sus2 or 4, meaning you replace the 3rd with 2 or 4) outside of rock music anyway. But as I said earlier, leaving the 3rd out if you plan to fill it with something else. Pretty powerful stuff.

Part of the way I approach as I did I suppose comes from playing Sax in a big band. A lot of the thoery my high schol music teacher failed to teach us comes back over time, or I approach in a certain way. When I wanted to learn chord stuff, I went with Howard Morgans fingerboard breakthrough (excellent!), so it is a jazz approach.

[glvourot]

Great advice here. Justinguitar is second to none IMO. I also play bass when I play with the guys. I love doing it but I don't practise bass at home. Its always guitar.

Metronome = invaluable. You do it enough and you hear one in your head and you don't need a real one anymore.

[chedwerks]

I've been using all of the techniques you guys suggest and I really like alot of it..good stuff. I don't get tripped up on music theory, for me it's more of applying it which these answers also help. Really appreciate it. Also was thinking about how playing with other people is so much FUN, which is why we all do this anyway.
I discovered a little something yesterday as well..I have a guitar that's been collecting dust for a long time, so I decided to see if I could bond with it and did. GAS and or instruments that are lying around aren't a bad thing in alot of ways..it kinda reminded me of when you are seeing a girl, and after a long break you see each other again and it's fun again..it's back. It was a good feeling to do different things and get out of that rut

[sickbutnottired]

chedworks, I totally agree with you about getting new gear and getting the spice back.

This is a great idea for a discussion, I know there are a lot of good players out there. Is there a key 'ahh ha' moment, a skill, or a mind set that really improved your playing? Come on, cough it up!

[chedwerks]

sickbutnottired- I will put the disclaimer that this is no secret, but something simple that I overlooked at some points. Take the things you already know and make them right. Example: yesterday I played all of my bends as perfectly as I could with no build up to it but straight to the pitch. It was less about style and more about perfection. Then I moved this into riffs or speed and did it with a style. My point is this; when you cook something it requires the correct ingredients of course, but it also requires the right amount of cooking time to be right. I could make something that had the ingredients perfectly portioned, but if I cook it for five minutes it will still taste like ass..just something that was passed down to me that helps sometimes..certainly not a secret, but a good thought.

[Dr B]

My problem is practice time. I came to the guitar late (around 37 years old) and I am nearly 40 now. I have a wife, and a demanding job that requires long and unpredictable hours. I dont have the time a 14 year old has to practice.

Sometimes I dont feel like playing and sometimes I cannot put the guitar down.
Sometimes i have a really good practice session where i feel real progression in my playing - then a week later - I've lost it again.

However, underlying all of these twists and turns is a slow upward progression. I am in no hurry and only play for my own enjoyment - I enjoy it more as I get better.

At this time in my learning I know a few minor pentatonic scales / blues scales; some major scales, a few common tricks and licks in blues style, and I try to listen to as much as I can and when I find an interesting bit - I try and have a go at the idea. Unlike friends of mine who have been trained in music - I have no problem jamming and constructing solos from my limited repitoire. It does not phase me at all. However, I have friends who play guitar and keyboards and they cannot really go outside of whats on the page. I prefer having the freedom to express myself on the guitar.

One thing that improved me was playing over backing tracks alot - even songs you dont know. If you know the key and the appropriate scale - then just go for it and see what comes out. Bend the rules a bit as well along the way

[sickbutnottired]

My problem is practice time. I came to the guitar late (around 37 years old) and I am nearly 40 now. I have a wife, and a demanding job that requires long and unpredictable hours. I dont have the time a 14 year old has to practice.

I hear ya loud and clear on this. In college I spent about 18 months were I was probably playing close to 30 hours a week. I'll never have that kinda time again. We had 2 steady gigs, and played an open mic that workshoped new material at. Plus we practiced in basement at least once a week. Plus I played at least 2 hours on my own a day. And I thought I was so busy!!!!

I have a 20 min power practice I do. I find it helps a ton keeping the momentum up. Most of the time I do this on accoustic or on an unplugged guitar or on my baby battery powered pignose. Basically I pick a key, say 'A'. I run through the major scale in the that key. I usually start on the lowest root note, but some days I'll start at the lowest note in the scale or the lowest III or V or something. Then run all the way up the neck and back, in the logical positions. Then I spend 10 minutes working on a song, riff or progression in that key. Then I end by playing and singing one song I know complete, front to back.

Sometimes I dont feel like playing and sometimes I cannot put the guitar down.
Sometimes i have a really good practice session where i feel real progression in my playing - then a week later - I've lost it again.

However, underlying all of these twists and turns is a slow upward progression. I am in no hurry and only play for my own enjoyment - I enjoy it more as I get better.

The more I play, the more I want to play. If I am busy for a couple days or away, it is hard for me to get my head back in the game. It seems like work. Then I get it done and I love it. Strange.

Slow and steady wins the race for us weekend warriors. I feel strongly that we (weekend players) can play good music with consistent effort.

jeremy

[sirmyghin]

At this time in my learning I know a few minor pentatonic scales / blues scales; some major scales, a few common tricks and licks in blues style, and I try to listen to as much as I can and when I find an interesting bit - I try and have a go at the idea. Unlike friends of mine who have been trained in music - I have no problem jamming and constructing solos from my limited repitoire. It does not phase me at all. However, I have friends who play guitar and keyboards and they cannot really go outside of whats on the page. I prefer having the freedom to express myself on the guitar.

One thing that improved me was playing over backing tracks alot - even songs you dont know. If you know the key and the appropriate scale - then just go for it and see what comes out. Bend the rules a bit as well along the way

The difference in here is not their training, but their practice time. Just want to make sure that this is clear, and theory isn't a bit evil improv killing monster. If anything chord construction and modal playing have made me think of improv in different lights. I am known to get pretty 'out there' though, and rarely use the standard licks, I make em up as I go, if it sounds too raunchy, play it 2 more times and they won't notice as the ear will adjust to accept it (that's jazz folks! ) .

[chedwerks]

"if it sounds too raunchy, play it 2 more times and they won't notice as the ear will adjust to accept it (that's jazz folks! ) ."
Haha, awesome!

[blargfromouterspace]

"if it sounds too raunchy, play it 2 more times and they won't notice as the ear will adjust to accept it (that's jazz folks! ) ."
Haha, awesome!

I use that trick quite a lot. Another good one is if you play a bum note make a joke of it and wind the string down 'til it flaps in the breeze. You'll at least get a laugh from your band mates.

[sirmyghin]

I use that trick quite a lot. Another good one is if you play a bum note make a joke of it and wind the string down 'til it flaps in the breeze. You'll at least get a laugh from your band mates.

It is all about making them think you did it on purpose, musicians never make mistakes.