Whammy Setup?

[wangbar]

Hey y'all, I'm working on developing my whammy technique, not in a shredder dive-bomb kind of way, but in a more subtle way. I want to be able to pull off some more bottleneck slide and pedal steel effects using the whammy bar, but I'm realizing that I need to achieve more precise intervals than I currently have when using the whammy. I was looking around youtube and I found this Carl Verheyen vid where he demonstrates an angled claw trick he uses to make this whammy technique work musically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy-F7iSIopA

I'm pretty much a newbie when it comes to whammy comprehension, and especially with the dual-fulcrum on my Legacy. What I would like to accomplish is the G bending up a minor 3rd, the B bending up a whole step, and the E bending up a half step. Does anybody have any experience tinkering with an angled claw, and if so, WHAT SHOULD I KNOW about messing with the dual-fulcrum tremolo in an effort to control intervals??

Any advice is much appreciated!!

[Elwood]

Cool vid,
The dual fulcrum should work the same way,
like Carl says it will take a little time to dial in in.

Welcome and let us know how it goes, I haven't tried that before.

...and we love pictures : )

(it sounds like you have an ASAT with a B-bender in your future)

[wangbar]

Thanks for the input! I will upload a pic of the axe a little later on. It's a new Legacy, 2-tone burst, vintage 'v" maple neck with gun oil tint. I'll up a pic a little later.

The other thing that confuses me is Spring Tension vs. String Tension. It seems that these two inherently match? It is just a question of adjusting the claw screws to where it's comfortable?

Also, any suggestions for minimizing strings detuning when doing big country bends? My hands are huge, so I have no trouble bending if they're tight, so maybe I should just make sure the springs are nice and tight?

-Ellis

[Elwood]

Thanks for the input! I will upload a pic of the axe a little later on. It's a new Legacy, 2-tone burst, vintage 'v" maple neck with gun oil tint. I'll up a pic a little later.

The other thing that confuses me is Spring Tension vs. String Tension. It seems that these two inherently match? It is just a question of adjusting the claw screws to where it's comfortable?

Also, any suggestions for minimizing strings detuning when doing big country bends? My hands are huge, so I have no trouble bending if they're tight, so maybe I should just make sure the springs are nice and tight?

-Ellis

Sounds like a sweet guitar...looking forward to pics

Yep your right, if the bridge is floating with enough travel in each direction and it's about 3/16" above the deck then the tensions are matching well.

I bet you'll find what your after with a little trial and error.

As to tuning stability, make sure the strings slide smoothly at the nut (this is the usual suspect in tuning instability), and with good tight wraps around the tuning posts you should be fine.

[Miles Smiles]

Looking around at youtube right now for a decent video about stretching strings, I mostly found videos made by people who believe, the strings itself have to be stretched, but which is wrong you can't stretch that kind of steel permanently except just right before it breaks. You pull the slack out of the windings and of it's seat in the bridge.

OK, this guy is right on how too much windings are bad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIwn5-3Mec8

And here's one from the same about stretching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDPto7BcWsY

There are some videos from this guy, showing how to reduce windings on the tuning posts.

I do the stretching with more force, pulling only one string around in the middle of the string, while holding it on the first fret, so it won't be pulled out of the nut. After stretching a single string I tune and stretch, until it stays perfectly in tune. Then I proceed to the next one.

My both guitars with Dual Fulcrum Vibrato have no tuning issues, even after dive bombs.

As already mentioned, the bridge plate has to 3/16" above the deck, everywhere. So it has to be parallel and without any angle, which is just necessary for a 6-post vintage vibrato to have it floating.

[BillEvans1956]

Stretching strings? Well, it's a personal choice. I never bother. I let my new strings 'settle in' without stretching. Sure, I need to re-tune a little at first, but I've never had a problem with this approach.

Bill

[wangbar]

Thanks again for the replies, all. I will make sure and maintain that 3/16" above the deck. Got some schaller locking tuners on the way, that I'll be putting in next week to minimize strings going out of tune.

After re-reading my last post, I realize that I was very unclear about what I meant. What I meant to convey was not detuning of open strings after doing big bends, but rather the detuning of adjacent strings when bending one string, on something like a pedal steel bend. You know, bend the B string at the 10th fret, then hold the bend, play the E string and it's out of tune. Is this just a question of keeping the vibrato really tight?

-E

[sirmyghin]

Stretching strings, while something I do, is only terribly important for guitars with locking nuts as you don't want to outrun your fine tuner throw in the middle of a string life. That is just annoying.

[Miles Smiles]

You know, bend the B string at the 10th fret, then hold the bend, play the E string and it's out of tune. Is this just a question of keeping the vibrato really tight?

OK, the problem can be reduced by using more springs, but that does not eliminate this problem completely and the whammy would be harder to use anyway.

You could try to hold the vibrato down with the palm of you picking hand at that occasions.

[sirmyghin]

Thanks again for the replies, all. I will make sure and maintain that 3/16" above the deck. Got some schaller locking tuners on the way, that I'll be putting in next week to minimize strings going out of tune.

After re-reading my last post, I realize that I was very unclear about what I meant. What I meant to convey was not detuning of open strings after doing big bends, but rather the detuning of adjacent strings when bending one string, on something like a pedal steel bend. You know, bend the B string at the 10th fret, then hold the bend, play the E string and it's out of tune. Is this just a question of keeping the vibrato really tight?

-E

this is a quirk of floating Trems, things like a 'trem setter' are supposed to eliminate it (they don't completely ASAIK). When doing unison bends (B and E, G and B ,etc you need to bend the other note a tiny bit too. When you bend the one string, you increase the tension it is applying, so pull the bridge up a bit, and all other strings detune. This takes some practice, I am close but not 100%. Iron Maiden - Run to the Hills is a good practice one.

[wangbar]

Yeah, looks like it's time for me to get my own setup kit and just start adjusting till I find what I want.

Really like the idea of using my right hand palm to hold the bridge in position. It's pretty easy to pull off, too!

-E

[wangbar]

OK I went ahead and made the claw screw adjustment. It's definitely going to take more fine tuning, but I've gotten the intervals to:

High E - 1/2 raised step (when pulling up)
B - whole step
G - minor 3rd
D, A, and low E - whole step

What I'm going for is more of an ability to put a fluid, "slide" effect into my playing, and I'm going to explore the possibilities of more pedal steel-style bends.

Haven't noticed any additional detuning of adjacent strings when doing (non whammy) string bends (the detuning is pretty miniscule, anyways). There are, however, some more pronounced tuning issues after heavy whammy use. I'm thinking this is where I'll need to fine tune the spring vs. string tension.

Not sure if I linked right, but here's where I'm at:



this is awesome!!