Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
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Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
Has anyone tried noiseless pickups in an ASAT Classic ? I've been thinking of replacing the MFDs in a Classic with something noiseless. Reason being CFL light bulbs are unavoidable these days and are a major source of noise. And as it starts to get dark before 4pm these days I could suffer the noise, or just play in the dark.
Then again some would say my playing has been in the dark for a long time now
I was considering Wilde L280s but they are out of stock at the moment and as opinions on pickups vary wildly, some like them and some don't. Same goes for the Dimarzio Area Ts', I can get a set of those easily enough, but I've heard they have a more rock or blues tone, i.e. they're hotter. I really want the twang with reduced noise. Any opinions welcome.
btw I will be getting them installed before I receive the guitar, both pickups and guitar will be unplayed by me so it's a bit of a blind leap of faith.
The ASAT in question, it's a '98 or so in trans red, belly cut, top binding and pearl scratch plate.
Then again some would say my playing has been in the dark for a long time now
I was considering Wilde L280s but they are out of stock at the moment and as opinions on pickups vary wildly, some like them and some don't. Same goes for the Dimarzio Area Ts', I can get a set of those easily enough, but I've heard they have a more rock or blues tone, i.e. they're hotter. I really want the twang with reduced noise. Any opinions welcome.
btw I will be getting them installed before I receive the guitar, both pickups and guitar will be unplayed by me so it's a bit of a blind leap of faith.
The ASAT in question, it's a '98 or so in trans red, belly cut, top binding and pearl scratch plate.
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
No advice on pickups but that is a sweet guitar. The finest color on the planet! --Darwin
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
I'm with you Darwin - that's a fine looking Red. Made even finer by the binding.
As far as noiseless pickups go, the only set I have is some gold Lace Sensors in a Strat Plus. They are so noiseless I'm constantly checking to make sure I'm plugged in. As far as the sound goes I'd call them vintage and authentic with a great balance across all the strings. I'm a fan of their sound. The main thing I don't like about them is that the best sound is achieved when they're set really high, almost touching the strings. I find the middle pickup gets in the way of my pick, though that wouldn't be a problem with an ASAT.
I've read some really good things about Kinman pickups as well. I'd like to try some out one day.
As far as noiseless pickups go, the only set I have is some gold Lace Sensors in a Strat Plus. They are so noiseless I'm constantly checking to make sure I'm plugged in. As far as the sound goes I'd call them vintage and authentic with a great balance across all the strings. I'm a fan of their sound. The main thing I don't like about them is that the best sound is achieved when they're set really high, almost touching the strings. I find the middle pickup gets in the way of my pick, though that wouldn't be a problem with an ASAT.
I've read some really good things about Kinman pickups as well. I'd like to try some out one day.
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
I've got GAS for the Wilde pickups at the moment too. There is a lot of praise for them. I'm very interested in the L48T/L45S combo for the build I have on - they're the twin blade design and are in stock. I've never tried them, it's always a gamble when trying out new pickups, but the price of the Wilde's makes them very attractive considering the most manufacturers charge around double.
-Jamie
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
The guitar in my avatar is a Melancon Pro Artist with a set of Kinman pickups. They are completely noiseless and sound very good. Not quite a vintage sound, but very close. I got the guitar used. I got the guitar from someone on the east coast of the US and it had to be shipped to me on the west coast. When I first got the guitar and played it I was disappointed with how it sounded. But after some research I realized that I should adjust the pickup heights (they were set quite high). After I tweak it for a while I had all 3 of them lowered until they all sounded good and in balance. I also did a complete setup myself. Now the guitar plays great and is terrific sounding.Philby wrote:I've read some really good things about Kinman pickups as well. I'd like to try some out one day.
Since you are in Australia I wonder whether Kinmans are easier to come by for you to try out?
Kit
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
Lovely looking axe there Kit
Another strange quirk of local pricing is that Kinman pickups can be sourced more cheaply from the USA than locally. I'd like to know the reason for that. It seems absurd.
You would think so wouldn't you? The funny thing is most Australian music shops only seem to stock DiMarzio, Seymour Duncan or Fender Custom Shop pickups. I've started to see Lollar pickups here and there but Kinmans are a rare breed.Since you are in Australia I wonder whether Kinmans are easier to come by for you to try out?
Another strange quirk of local pricing is that Kinman pickups can be sourced more cheaply from the USA than locally. I'd like to know the reason for that. It seems absurd.
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
Thanks for all of the replies so far guys.
I forgot to mention that as I'm left handed the pole piece stagger would have to left handed for the bridge pickup, or at least have only a very small amount of stagger. A set of lefty Kinmans I imagine would be would be very expensive and a special order. No one in Europe stocks lefty Kinmans that I know of. Plus if they weren't to my liking they would be kinda hard to sell on. The Area Ts' seem to have no stagger at all, the Wildes can be made in lefty, their rail type models will work either way but I get the impression they are high output pickups which isn't what I'm after really.
I forgot to mention that as I'm left handed the pole piece stagger would have to left handed for the bridge pickup, or at least have only a very small amount of stagger. A set of lefty Kinmans I imagine would be would be very expensive and a special order. No one in Europe stocks lefty Kinmans that I know of. Plus if they weren't to my liking they would be kinda hard to sell on. The Area Ts' seem to have no stagger at all, the Wildes can be made in lefty, their rail type models will work either way but I get the impression they are high output pickups which isn't what I'm after really.
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
A quick look at the FAQ on the Kinman website I found out that Kinman does make pickup sets for left-handed guitars. I am more surprised to find that he even makes a staggered pole pickup set for small radius fretboards. All this does not make getting a set easier, or any easier to dispose of a set if it doesn't work for you.SouthpawGuy wrote:Thanks for all of the replies so far guys.
I forgot to mention that as I'm left handed the pole piece stagger would have to left handed for the bridge pickup, or at least have only a very small amount of stagger. A set of lefty Kinmans I imagine would be would be very expensive and a special order. No one in Europe stocks lefty Kinmans that I know of. Plus if they weren't to my liking they would be kinda hard to sell on. The Area Ts' seem to have no stagger at all, the Wildes can be made in lefty, their rail type models will work either way but I get the impression they are high output pickups which isn't what I'm after really.
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
So I have a similar hatred of the 60hz hum you get from electrical equipment and I've spent a bit of time researching ways to squash it. There's really only a few things I've found that work:
1. The EHX Hum Debugger: http://www.ehx.com/products/hum-debugger This thing is like magic. It will work on any noise that's caused by your electrical system, such as from fluorescent lighting, bad old wiring, etc. How it works is you plug its power adapter into the *same* outlet that your other gear goes into. This is key, because the Hum Debugger will look at the cycle of the noise on the mains power and then produce a counter wave that matches it much like a humbucking pickup does, but much more accurately. Doing this removes the hum from your guitar's signal and only changes it slightly. With this I can play my ASAT and have no hum at all. The other key point is it must come *first* in your pedal chain. It's analyzing the signal from the electrical wiring and from your guitar, so if it's at the end of your signal chain then it can't do a good job. Other than that it's easy to use and I just don't think about it. This is definitely the least expensive and easiest to use sound improvement.
2. Sanyo Pedal Juice battery packs: http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/25/sany ... k-preview/ I have two of these and they rock. I haven't plugged in any of my pedals (except for the Hum Debugger) for months. I can power about 4-8 pedals for about 3 weeks to a month before recharging, and I practice for at least 2 hours a day. It has a great display light that comes in about mid-way in the power level, so you can make sure it's really charged before going out. Rather than having it die on you because it went green-yellow-red-dead in the span of a minute. They're also very light, fit into a pedal slot, and because you aren't plugged into a socket with most of your gear then all your pedals are much quieter. It's also just way easier to use than tons of power cabling and strips. Get two of them and then you're never screwed since that's 100 hours of power (yes, they're estimated at 50 each).
3. Hum bucking pickups. I've found TV Jones, Z-Coils, and most rails based humbuckers have almost no noise at all. Other humbucking pickups I have are still kind of noisy despite their claims. The Z-Coils are about as perfect as you can get for very little noise but still sounding bright. Rails pickups seem to be the next best, although some folks think they sound mechanical. TV Jones are good, but I think they're specific to particular styles and definitely not very high output. Also check out some of the stacked humbuckers from Joe Barden.
4. Shielding Tape. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics ... _Tape.html Take some of this and shield your body cavity in the guitar and the pickguard and you'll cut down on a whole lot of noise as well. There's some debate as to whether this reduces the sensitivity of the magnets in your pickups, and you might want your instrument in pristine factory condition. I'd start with just the pickguard, since most manufacturers do a crap job of shielding that anyway. If that helps then try the body cavity as well. I've done this only on guitars with too much noise to handle.
5. Aluminum pickguards from http://www.tone-guard.com/ are great too. If you don't want to destroy the original pickguard then buy one of these to match your guitar and it's basically the same effect. I got a powder coat one for a Comanche and it fit great. Since the Comanche has Z-Coils it didn't really do anything for the shielding, but I liked how it looked and how I don't get fingerprints on it. I also think it made it sound a little different and liked it, so definitely buy just one and try it. You must make sure you get the exact one for your guitar though. These are cut exactly to specs for that guitar so the fit can be very snug.
6. A better amp or an amp mod. I've found that a lot of amp just have junk transformers and badly soldered parts these days. I bought a used Fender Pro Jr., but put the Fromel Electronics mods into it. This mod replaces nearly every component with upgrades and fixes a few design flaws and manufacturing defects Fender seems to put into all their amps these days. Before the mods the amp was noisy as hell and the guy who sold it to me thought something was wrong with it so I got it cheap. Even with my Z-coil or TV Jones pickups this thing was getting radio and TV from other apartments. After the Fromel mod it's the quietest nicest sounding little amp possible. A bit of shielding with copper tape on the back panel and then, TADA, no noise at all. I also have a Blackheart that's very low noise because of their power transformer design. Meanwhile, nearly every amp produced today with mass manufacturing seems to be a piece of noisy junk.
7. Check the ground on your guitar. If your guitar is like most of the G&L models they have the ground running to the bridge or some other part you touch. This is why, if you take your hands off the strings, it'll pick up 60hz hum and RF. But, put your hands back on and it's dead quiet (or more quiet). What they're doing is using your body as a ground, which actually could be dangerous if you ever completed a circuit with your guitar and the electrical system. Anyway, this ground wire is sometimes comes loose, and so one day you'll pick your guitar up and even if you touch it the things sounds noisy. Depending on the type of guitar you might be able to fix it yourself, or you can take it in to a shop and just tell them the ground wire came loose. They can fix it very cheaply and quick usually.
That's the stuff I've found that works at eliminating noise. I tell people today that they should buy the Hum Debugger for electrical line noise, the Sanyo Pedal Juice, and then shield their pickguard. After that it's time to get better pickups and a better amp.
There are two things you should *not* buy:
1. DO NOT USE GRAPHITE SHIELD PAINT. There's a graphite paint that is sold as a kind of shielding and it's pointless. It's dangerous to use since you can inhale it and it's graphite so you can get really ill or even die from it. I tried using it on a guitar I was putting together for fun and it was a nightmare. It gets everywhere, you have to wear goggles and mask, and be very careful. I accidentally inhaled the tiniest little bit that plumed up when I just moved the guitar and I was coughing for an hour until it all came up. In the end it didn't do a damn thing to shield the guitar and compared to copper tape it was pointless. My estimate is you'd have to slob on a huge coat of this stuff for it to work. My opinion is this crap shouldn't be sold anymore.
2. DO NOT GET A EBTECH HUM-X. These things are totally pointless and I'm pretty sure they're snake oil and would love to sue them for it. They claim to "lift ground loops" but the chance that you actually have a real ground loop and not just a regular 60hz hum is pretty low. It doesn't have any effect on noise levels, and to prove it I got one and measured the 60hz hum level against the Hum Debugger. The Hum Debugger actually removed it while the Hum-X didn't do anything by comparison.
3. DO NOT GET THE HUM ELIMINATOR. These are even worse than the Hum-X. The Hum-X just did nothing, but the EBTECH Hum Eliminator actually *added* RF interference from TV and radio transmissions and I could actually turn it around and pick up FM stations clearer than on my actual FM radio. I am not exaggerating on this. This thing claims to condition the line and remove the hum using some kind of transformer mumbo-jumbo but it's pointless if they can't figure out how to shield the thing from RF. Just avoid it.
Well, I hope this very long and super detailed answer helps you. I know I wish I knew all this stuff before I went looking.
1. The EHX Hum Debugger: http://www.ehx.com/products/hum-debugger This thing is like magic. It will work on any noise that's caused by your electrical system, such as from fluorescent lighting, bad old wiring, etc. How it works is you plug its power adapter into the *same* outlet that your other gear goes into. This is key, because the Hum Debugger will look at the cycle of the noise on the mains power and then produce a counter wave that matches it much like a humbucking pickup does, but much more accurately. Doing this removes the hum from your guitar's signal and only changes it slightly. With this I can play my ASAT and have no hum at all. The other key point is it must come *first* in your pedal chain. It's analyzing the signal from the electrical wiring and from your guitar, so if it's at the end of your signal chain then it can't do a good job. Other than that it's easy to use and I just don't think about it. This is definitely the least expensive and easiest to use sound improvement.
2. Sanyo Pedal Juice battery packs: http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/25/sany ... k-preview/ I have two of these and they rock. I haven't plugged in any of my pedals (except for the Hum Debugger) for months. I can power about 4-8 pedals for about 3 weeks to a month before recharging, and I practice for at least 2 hours a day. It has a great display light that comes in about mid-way in the power level, so you can make sure it's really charged before going out. Rather than having it die on you because it went green-yellow-red-dead in the span of a minute. They're also very light, fit into a pedal slot, and because you aren't plugged into a socket with most of your gear then all your pedals are much quieter. It's also just way easier to use than tons of power cabling and strips. Get two of them and then you're never screwed since that's 100 hours of power (yes, they're estimated at 50 each).
3. Hum bucking pickups. I've found TV Jones, Z-Coils, and most rails based humbuckers have almost no noise at all. Other humbucking pickups I have are still kind of noisy despite their claims. The Z-Coils are about as perfect as you can get for very little noise but still sounding bright. Rails pickups seem to be the next best, although some folks think they sound mechanical. TV Jones are good, but I think they're specific to particular styles and definitely not very high output. Also check out some of the stacked humbuckers from Joe Barden.
4. Shielding Tape. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics ... _Tape.html Take some of this and shield your body cavity in the guitar and the pickguard and you'll cut down on a whole lot of noise as well. There's some debate as to whether this reduces the sensitivity of the magnets in your pickups, and you might want your instrument in pristine factory condition. I'd start with just the pickguard, since most manufacturers do a crap job of shielding that anyway. If that helps then try the body cavity as well. I've done this only on guitars with too much noise to handle.
5. Aluminum pickguards from http://www.tone-guard.com/ are great too. If you don't want to destroy the original pickguard then buy one of these to match your guitar and it's basically the same effect. I got a powder coat one for a Comanche and it fit great. Since the Comanche has Z-Coils it didn't really do anything for the shielding, but I liked how it looked and how I don't get fingerprints on it. I also think it made it sound a little different and liked it, so definitely buy just one and try it. You must make sure you get the exact one for your guitar though. These are cut exactly to specs for that guitar so the fit can be very snug.
6. A better amp or an amp mod. I've found that a lot of amp just have junk transformers and badly soldered parts these days. I bought a used Fender Pro Jr., but put the Fromel Electronics mods into it. This mod replaces nearly every component with upgrades and fixes a few design flaws and manufacturing defects Fender seems to put into all their amps these days. Before the mods the amp was noisy as hell and the guy who sold it to me thought something was wrong with it so I got it cheap. Even with my Z-coil or TV Jones pickups this thing was getting radio and TV from other apartments. After the Fromel mod it's the quietest nicest sounding little amp possible. A bit of shielding with copper tape on the back panel and then, TADA, no noise at all. I also have a Blackheart that's very low noise because of their power transformer design. Meanwhile, nearly every amp produced today with mass manufacturing seems to be a piece of noisy junk.
7. Check the ground on your guitar. If your guitar is like most of the G&L models they have the ground running to the bridge or some other part you touch. This is why, if you take your hands off the strings, it'll pick up 60hz hum and RF. But, put your hands back on and it's dead quiet (or more quiet). What they're doing is using your body as a ground, which actually could be dangerous if you ever completed a circuit with your guitar and the electrical system. Anyway, this ground wire is sometimes comes loose, and so one day you'll pick your guitar up and even if you touch it the things sounds noisy. Depending on the type of guitar you might be able to fix it yourself, or you can take it in to a shop and just tell them the ground wire came loose. They can fix it very cheaply and quick usually.
That's the stuff I've found that works at eliminating noise. I tell people today that they should buy the Hum Debugger for electrical line noise, the Sanyo Pedal Juice, and then shield their pickguard. After that it's time to get better pickups and a better amp.
There are two things you should *not* buy:
1. DO NOT USE GRAPHITE SHIELD PAINT. There's a graphite paint that is sold as a kind of shielding and it's pointless. It's dangerous to use since you can inhale it and it's graphite so you can get really ill or even die from it. I tried using it on a guitar I was putting together for fun and it was a nightmare. It gets everywhere, you have to wear goggles and mask, and be very careful. I accidentally inhaled the tiniest little bit that plumed up when I just moved the guitar and I was coughing for an hour until it all came up. In the end it didn't do a damn thing to shield the guitar and compared to copper tape it was pointless. My estimate is you'd have to slob on a huge coat of this stuff for it to work. My opinion is this crap shouldn't be sold anymore.
2. DO NOT GET A EBTECH HUM-X. These things are totally pointless and I'm pretty sure they're snake oil and would love to sue them for it. They claim to "lift ground loops" but the chance that you actually have a real ground loop and not just a regular 60hz hum is pretty low. It doesn't have any effect on noise levels, and to prove it I got one and measured the 60hz hum level against the Hum Debugger. The Hum Debugger actually removed it while the Hum-X didn't do anything by comparison.
3. DO NOT GET THE HUM ELIMINATOR. These are even worse than the Hum-X. The Hum-X just did nothing, but the EBTECH Hum Eliminator actually *added* RF interference from TV and radio transmissions and I could actually turn it around and pick up FM stations clearer than on my actual FM radio. I am not exaggerating on this. This thing claims to condition the line and remove the hum using some kind of transformer mumbo-jumbo but it's pointless if they can't figure out how to shield the thing from RF. Just avoid it.
Well, I hope this very long and super detailed answer helps you. I know I wish I knew all this stuff before I went looking.
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
This is some great stuff. And I'm with you on the EBTECH Hum Eliminator. I had bought one a decade ago to try to reduce the hum in my rack gear and it didn't make one iota of a difference. Took it out and never used it again. Have to try the EH unit.
- Jos
- Jos
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
Thanks for an info packed and concise post...I'll look into #1 and #2,
...you mentioned adding shielding to an amp...I never considered that...but I do remember a story about randy hansen's tech putting cookie sheets( must have been grounded somehow ) inbetween the heads at a particularly troublesome venue...I can't remember if it helped or not , but I can see how it would if placed right.
...you mentioned adding shielding to an amp...I never considered that...but I do remember a story about randy hansen's tech putting cookie sheets( must have been grounded somehow ) inbetween the heads at a particularly troublesome venue...I can't remember if it helped or not , but I can see how it would if placed right.
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
update ----
I ordered a Wilde L200TL and an L202TN for the ASAT. They're making a batch this week so I ordered a lefty staggered pickup for the bridge.
I ordered a Wilde L200TL and an L202TN for the ASAT. They're making a batch this week so I ordered a lefty staggered pickup for the bridge.
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
pickups now installed ...
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Re: Noiseless Pickups in an ASAT Classic ?
At the moment that's the million dollar question ... I won't be receiving it for a while it's still in the US.blargfromouterspace wrote:How do they sound?