Someone from G&L should................

[westsideduck]

Flag the currant listing on E-Bay for a NOS Broadcaster serialized neck plate, If it's NOS then it had to be stolen from the factory and should be flaged as such, There's enough fake broadcasters out there already.

Gary

[yowhatsshakin]

Nasty!

Question for Craig and/or the rest of the forum. In a case like this, should an entry be added to the Registry for this Serial Number with proper description that this cannot be a bona fide guitar? On the one hand the registry is 'polluted' with non-existing instruments. But on the other hand, if it is being used as a reference by the likes of us, there is valid information to be found. And there is a kind of precedence as far as Broadcasters are concerned. Look for BC00001!

- Jos

[willross]

I haven't seen it yet. Is it expensive? If not, I'd consider buying it and sending it back to G&L.


Cheers,

Will

[yowhatsshakin]

I haven't seen it yet.

Here's the link Will. Asking price is a bit too steep for me. Seems they know perfectly well what they're having.

- Jos

[HLG]

While it's true that G&L made the Broadcaster, you can't expect the modern day G&L to keep track of all guitars made since 1980. After the change of hands in 1992 the company did not archive the records and log books for the previous 11 years. They are after all a manufacturing company with their main focus being development and sales of new guitars. As the Broadcaster enters the vintage realm, there are enthusiasts and collectors tracking this, and some of the earlier more rare and collectible models. With regards to this particular neck plate (BC00199), it never made it back to G&L from the vendor. More accurately stated, it was never entered into the Broadcaster log book as the neck plate being received. When or where it was misplaced, who knows? The plates that were illegible because of the coating process should have never been sent back to G&L. This one however, looks legible to me. I don't believe any fake Broadcaster, whole or in part, could make it past this forum without a minor uproar (as long a photo was posted or the serial number was brought up). The responsibility of a potential Broadcaster owner to insure that a guitar is not a fake ultimately falls on that individual and they should do the research or at least ask a few questions. This particular Broadcaster neck plate is not taboo and I feel items such as this are great souvenirs. It's all in the intent of the owner. As the G&L Broadcaster continually increases in value and collectability over time, so will the available information on this model. There is in the G&L registry a section for registering parts such as this if anyone cares to do so. If there is indeed someone out there with bad intent, big brother is watching!

[willross]

Thanks, HLG. I've already taken a deep breath and calmed down. Now I'm contemplating why I would care so much.


Cheers,

Will

[westsideduck]

Well HLG, Not everyone has accesss to the logs like some of us here do, It just sucks to see someone pay good money for a fake and they are easy to fake with parts like that floating around, hate to see the leo era G&L's turn into Fenders ,if you know what I mean.

Gary

[yowhatsshakin]

It's now entered in the Registry under the 'Neck or neckplate only' category.

- Jos

[suave eddie]

Their is someone on eBay parting out brand new Fender custom shop Nocasters.
The most disturbing part is that he is also selling the COA.

Someone could buy the bridge plate with the serial number on it together with the COA and totally misrepresent a mongrel partscaster.

[darwinohm]

Sauve Eddie, the Stratosphere has been parting out new Fenders and Custom shop models for several years. You can buy almost any Fender part, new, that you need including bodys, necks and bridge/ tremolo assemblies. This is what happens when manufacturers will not sell replacement necks and parts that guys may need. I have seen a few, like new, G&L parts in the last few days. The places that part out new guitars are making much more at parting them out than you could selling new guitars. I do not know of any way to prevent this. Look at number of transactions and the feedback on e-bay of the Stratosphere and you will see that this is no small operation and could possible the largest supplier of Fender parts anywhere. If I had a pristine guitar that would not sell at a fair market I would consider parting it out. A Fender American Deluxe neck in new/ excellent condition easily brings $400 to $450 in the used market. If you have an American Artist model the prices are higher accordingly. There are fellows looking for replacement necks for their G&Ls. G&L will sell you a replacement neck. I believe the only way to get a neck from Fender would be under a warranty claim only. But, if what you are looking for is available on E-bay in the condition you are looking for, most people will buy if the price is fair. It cuts the time and shipping costs over returning an instrument to the factory even if they will do it.-- Darwin

[HLG]

Well HLG, Not everyone has accesss to the logs like some of us here do, It just sucks to see someone pay good money for a fake and they are easy to fake with parts like that floating around, hate to see the leo era G&L's turn into Fenders ,if you know what I mean.

Gary

I agree. Scammers are everywhere and just in it for a quick buck. Seemingly without conscience. I remember buying that first G&L Broadcaster. It was only after owning one for the first time did I do any serious research on the subject. When I went to buy a second one and knowing about the counterfeits, the nervousness really started to set in. Laying down better than 2K for a used guitar, and from a stranger yet, will make that indecision show it's ugly head. Seems like the quest for info is ongoing to prevent ending up with a fake. I mean, what do you do with it after the deal is done and the scammer is long gone? Firewood I suppose. I believe counterfeiting of the Broadcasters along with other sought after guitars (like the Fenders) is inevitable as time goes by. As long as there are individuals out there with no dignity, self respect or conscience.
As far as having access to privileged information and records, it's out there for anyone willing to spend enormous amounts of time, energy, and money, all while pushing aside domestic responsibilities and bringing some relationships to the brink of utter destruction. I walk a fine line my friend. All for when you point out to her...look honey another fake Broadcaster, and in response you receive that all gratifying...that's nice dear.

[Tom Valentine]

This discussion, and other recent ones of the same topic ... is disturbing.

In regard to fake Broadcasters, the question has been asked several times over the years on this very board: "How to tell if a Broadcaster is authentic or counterfeit?" .. and always seems to be met with either a stony silence or some jargon about 'log records' or some such. Not helpful at all.

It is understandable that those in the know would be tight lipped about revealing such details about "how to tell" so as not to give a leg-up to counterfeiters, lest they correct their flaws, but for us regular average G.A.S. players it would really be helpful to at least know some of the signs of what might constitute a counterfeit Broadcaster, or any other G&L for that matter.

Do we need to get a Mister Wizard Carbon-14 Dating kit in order to tell ???

OK ... /rant off

-- TV

[Craig]

Nasty!

Question for Craig and/or the rest of the forum. In a case like this, should an entry be added to the Registry for this Serial Number with proper description that this cannot be a bona fide guitar? On the one hand the registry is 'polluted' with non-existing instruments. But on the other hand, if it is being used as a reference by the likes of us, there is valid information to be found. And there is a kind of precedence as far as Broadcasters are concerned. Look for BC00001!

- Jos

Yes, register the neckplate and we can make a notation in the Other Features field about the known info about this part.
Certainly a note about this serial number not being issued on any G&L Broadcaster would be in order.

On the one hand the registry is 'polluted' with non-existing instruments.

Can you please elaborate on this comment? If you (or anyone else) has knowledge about a particular entry in the Registry, please let me know with the info
that leads you to believe it is not accurate.

[yowhatsshakin]

On the one hand the registry is 'polluted' with non-existing instruments.

Can you please elaborate on this comment? If you (or anyone else) has knowledge about a particular entry in the Registry, please let me know with the info
that leads you to believe it is not accurate.

Hi Craig,
When I wrote my original post I was not aware of the 'Neck and neckplate only' category in the Registry. So I was still thinking of adding this serial number to the Broadcaster section. In that case, this would not be a real guitar; just the neck plate. That is the 'pollution' I meant.

But since Gary pointed out that there is a separate section for necks and neck plates, this is not an issue. I added the entry there and if people now search for this S/N, this is the entry that would pop up. And the registered Broadcasters are all complete instruments. OK, perhaps with the notable exception of #1.

Sorry if my comment caused any confusion.

- Jos

[Jim P]

I think I can safely say that I can vouch for the guy selling this neck plate. He was a long-time member on the old G&LDP - I don't believe he's a member now - but I've purchased several items from him in the past and all transactions have been good ones. He's been a collector of G&L guitars and parts for many years now, and every item I've ever purchased from him has been a legitimate G&L item. If anyone has any doubt, I'm sure you could write him with a question and he'll give you an honest answer as to the background of the part. I might also add that this guy was also very good friends with a few of the employees at G&L during the "pre" and "post" BBE era, so I'm quite certain he had access to parts that may have been discarded by G&L over the course of the first 10 or 20 years of G&L's existence, including those parts that may have been intended to be a part of a Broadcaster that may not have ever hit the marketplace. Seriously, folks, I believe there's a valid explanation for this particular neck plate, and I would seriously think twice about this before placing an item in the registry if it didn't belong to me. Just my 2 pennies!

[sickbutnottired]

I don't understand the downside to putting this part in the parts registry. It's just one more piece of info that people can find when sorting through the swamp that is the used guitar market online. I mean if someone makes a guitar out of this, more power to them. But it would be great to be able to at least get a sense of what you are buying, when looking at it (the new guitar) down the road.

I don't have any real classics. But I really think fakes damage the value of these pieces. It is just such a struggle to verify things, people are discouraged from even playing.

Jim, I think it's great that you vouch for this guy. That is a real service, too. Or it would be if I was in the market for a piece like that!!!

[Jaystrings]

Gotta go with Jim P on this one. I, also, have bought several G&Ls from this seller & he's ok.

I have also owned TWO (2) different Broadcasters that did NOT have the inspection stickers inside the neck. One was real and one was fake.

The real one came from Italy. That was about 8 years ago & we still correspond frequently. He bought it from a friend who had purchased it new from a music store in Italy. And according to the serial number AND Dale Hyatt referring to his records of production logs, that same guitar was sent to that same store in Italy in 1985. So, what happened to the Leo-signed inspection sticker? Who knows? Awesome Broadcaster, but worth a lot less without the sticker. I paid $1200 for it 8 years ago and sold it with the buyer knowing all the details: a legit BC without an inspection sticker.

The fake BC came from the Marketplace on this forum. The seller, when I informed him of the missing sticker, promptly refunded my money and apologized many times for not checking it. He soon sold it for less to someone (with full disclosure) as an ASAT dressed like a BC.

Lots of scammers of all sorts out there. Not just BC's. Pays to inspect before buying if you can. I could not; did not.

But the seller of this neckplate is ok - as were the guys who sold me my BC's.

For what it's worth: having owned BC's & ASATs from the mid=80s, why buy a BC when you can get an ASAT for lots less. Same guitar.

And, yes, Dale Hyatt has his copy of the BC production logs.

J

[darwinohm]

This is becoming an interesting thread. Anything that is sold as vintage is suspect to fraud unless the seller can prove that they or a relative can prove that it was purchased new by them or someone in the family. Fender has produced a lot of guitars since it started. There are people out there who can restore a body so well that it cannot be told unless the body were stripped and the wood is visible. Ed Roman in LV will tell you in no uncertain terms that restoration can be done to the point where you cannot visibly tell what has been done. I can also tell you it is possible to airbrush small damage so it becomes undetectable. I also believe there is a lot of vintage stuff being sold that may not be true vintage. Unfortunately, we are almost left to determine the honesty of the seller. I have bought a lot of things on the Bay and have yet to be burned. I have also installed several Bigsbys on Teles and I am honest about what has been done. In the end they have been sought out and the last one I did was purchased by a collector. I have a parts Strat that I built. I would not sell that guitar for any less than one of my American Deluxe Strats. I think that Jim and Jaystrings have made good points. They have had a good relationship with the seller. This is hard to police and there are a lot of good, honest sellers out there. Hopefully we hear about the bad ones. I usually have several conversations with a seller before buying and most people are not good con artists. There are a few that I have walked away from quickly but there have been many honest ones. There are also some who did not know what they had. I guess a buyer has to know what they are buying as in the end it is they who have to live with the result.--- Darwin

[westsideduck]

Hey Jay,

I never meant to imply that the seller was dishonest, he is very up front about the item he is selling, I too have seen many fine G&L's sold by this guy, so, with his knowledge of G&L's I highly doubt he's not aware of what this neck plate can be used for, it's called ethics and what goes around comes around, maybe he will buy a fake broadcaster someday!

Gary

[Jim P]

You know, while I'm fully aware of the instrument registry here, I had no clue that a parts registry even existed. Can someone steer me to where that is? Thanks!

[sickbutnottired]

You know, while I'm fully aware of the instrument registry here, I had no clue that a parts registry even existed. Can someone steer me to where that is? Thanks!

That foiled me, too. It's not a separate registry, do a search by model for 'neck and neck plate only' (it's in the drop down.)

[Jim P]

That foiled me, too. It's not a separate registry, do a search by model for 'neck and neck plate only' (it's in the drop down.)

Thanks! I found the neck plate in the registry, but it just confirms my belief that this was more than likely a leftover NOS G&L part that was never installed on an assembled Broadcaster. I have literally seen dozens of G&L parts such as bridges, pickups, pickguards, etc. sold on eBay through the guy in question here, and I'm quite sure this plate is the real item, that is, if it was truly in question at all. Although, I'm not really sure why anybody would pay his asking price for a part that's essentially useless unless you're a super-avid G&L collector or simply in dire need of a Broadcaster plate.

[Craig]

You know, while I'm fully aware of the instrument registry here, I had no clue that a parts registry even existed. Can someone steer me to where that is? Thanks!

A few years back we added the Bridge only and Neck or neckplate only Model Selections, so that we could capture those parts which had serial numbers. Those are the only parts we capture
in the Registry.

Hope this helps.

[Jaystrings]

Yep, a most interesting and informative thread.

I do hope that one day the production logs from the Leo years will be accessible online. Could save some heartache for some buyers.

I must say that this forum is still the best resource for G&L research, regardless of some registry flaws. For example, I had never been able to find keepers in the Fender & Gibson product lines. Because of this forum, I have several G&Ls that will be passed along in my will: 82 S-500, SC-2, G-200, 86 ASAT, Leo Sig Skyhawk, 99 Bluesboy, 20th Anniversary, spalted maple Legacy, & possibly the Trinity.

Frankly, the forum has led me away from about as many guitars as it has led me to. And threads like this one have been invaluable as a "heads-up".