closest G&L pickup to Danny Gatton type sound

[broadcasterite]

Would the normal G&L P90 type pickups (as you can get on an ASAT) be considered similar to Joe Barden pickups found in the Danny Gatton reissue axe?
I think these are the P90 pickups:
http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/US ... /index.asp

Also, this summarizes some differences:
http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/TABLES/GL_G ... ckups.html

Danny Gatton reissue:
PICKUPS 2 Custom Joe Barden Dual-Coil Tele Pickups (Neck & Bridge)
http://www.dannygatton.com/telecast.html

I notice that this guitar has the same pickups I have on my Tribute Legacy:
http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/US ... /index.asp

Thanks for any opinions on what G&L pup might be in the tonal ballpark of the Danny Gatton reissue guitar's pickups.

[blargfromouterspace]

That's a tough question. Those Barden pickups are dual blade, tele sized humbuckers. The pickups on the ASAT are voiced more like a P90 and although they are certainly fatter than a regular single coil, they don't sound like a humbucker. To my ears, and this is the crucial thing here, humbuckers NEVER sound like single coil pickups, even those that are designed to. I would say that the are no G&L pickups that sound like the Bardens. Personally, I'd go for the ASAT Classic as it has a tele type bridge setup which is very important to the overall Gatton tone. Also, with the Classic you could take the stock pickups out and put a set of Barden Danny Gatton pickups in - that way you'd be very, very close. However, at almost $300 a pair you might be saving up for a while! Bill Lawrence makes dual blade pickups for much, much less and from what I've read people are very happy with them.

As an aside, I'll add that a whole lot of Danny Gatton's sound is due to the way he plays and that unless you can nail that (and good luck to you!) you won't be all that close to his tone.



To answer your other statement RE: your Tribute Legacy; I believe you are mistaken - the ASAT Classic does NOT have the same pickups.

[broadcasterite]

blargfromouterspace,

What you are saying is analagous to someone thinking that getting a Fender Strat would give them similar tone to playing like Jimi Hendrix. I hear you on that!
This is probably chasing a ridiculous quest, but I was curious to what G&L might have in that kind of tone or their pickups. The tele type bridge - that is interesting to consider, since the
Fender teles have that. I'll check out some classic ASATS.

Thanks!

[broadcasterite]

blargfromouterspace,

What you are saying is analagous to someone thinking that getting a Fender Strat would give them similar tone to playing like Jimi Hendrix. I hear you on that!
This is probably chasing a ridiculous quest, but I was curious to what G&L might have in that kind of tone or their pickups. The tele type bridge - that is interesting to consider, since the
Fender teles have that. I'll check out some classic ASATS.

Thanks!

[Craig]

Would the normal G&L P90 type pickups (as you can get on an ASAT) be considered similar to Joe Barden pickups found in the Danny Gatton reissue axe?
I think these are the P90 pickups:
http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/US ... /index.asp

Also, this summarizes some differences:
http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/TABLES/GL_G ... ckups.html

Danny Gatton reissue:
PICKUPS 2 Custom Joe Barden Dual-Coil Tele Pickups (Neck & Bridge)
http://www.dannygatton.com/telecast.html

I notice that this guitar has the same pickups I have on my Tribute Legacy:
http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/US ... /index.asp

Thanks for any opinions on what G&L pup might be in the tonal ballpark of the Danny Gatton reissue guitar's pickups.

The ASAT Special soapbar style G&L Magnetic Field Design high output single coil pickups are not P90 pickups.

The Tribute Legacy pickups are the same pickups as the USA Legacy and are G&L vintage style Alnico V single coil pickups.
The ASAT Classic pickups are traditional size G&L MFD single coil pickups.

Check our G&L Knowledgebase, General G&L Questions sub-forum for this post: List of pickups used in G&L guitars.

Hope this helps.

[blargfromouterspace]

What you are saying is analagous to someone thinking that getting a Fender Strat would give them similar tone to playing like Jimi Hendrix. I hear you on that!

Yep. I'm very glad that we're on the same page with that one.

This is probably chasing a ridiculous quest.....

Absolutely not! I hope I didn't give that impression. Hearing the different sounds people get out of their guitars is a good skill to have and is a great way of developing your ears. It's certainly not ridiculous to want to pinpoint some aspect of a guitar which will get you a step closer to Danny Gatton's (or anyone else's) tone. Do check out the ASAT Classic if you get a chance, the bridge really does play a HUGE part in the sound of a tele type guitar.

Enjoy your quest!

[blargfromouterspace]

I was just at the G&L website and saw that they offer these. They're dual blade pickups. And G&L made ones, I'd always assumed they were Duncans or something. There you go! Although you can't get them on an ASAT, if you ordered the Legacy with a saddle lock (fixed) bridge you might come close to DG's sound than with the standard DFV.

[Craig]

I was just at the G&L website and saw that they offer these. They're dual blade pickups. And G&L made ones, I'd always assumed they were Duncans or something. There you go! Although you can't get them on an ASAT, if you ordered the Legacy with a saddle lock (fixed) bridge you might come close to DG's sound than with the standard DFV.

The pickups are made for G&L by Gotoh in Japan. See List of pickups used in G&L guitars.

Hope this helps.

[broadcasterite]

I traded some old gear towards a used G&L ASAT with single coil pickups. I never played one before with single coils
and it sounded like a souped up tele. The action was very low and it was just unbelievable.
I'll try posting a pic next few days.

[blargfromouterspace]

I traded some old gear towards a used G&L ASAT with single coil pickups. I never played one before with single coils
and it sounded like a souped up tele. The action was very low and it was just unbelievable.
I'll try posting a pic next few days.

Good stuff! Now you can just buy the Barden DG pickups, install them and *!BAM!* Danny Gatton signature ASAT!

[broadcasterite]

Yeah, I might eventually get the Bardens. For now, I'll see how I like the stock pups for a while.
Before I picked up the ASAT, I thought I would be changing the pickups. Now, I am not so sure!
But, I know a band's guitarist who swears by the Bardens - he put them on his Tele thinline years ago
and he gets a real thick sound with a Fender Deluxe and Boss distortion pedal.

[fendertweed]

short answer, having owned numerous sets of Bardens (including in a DG Tele) and large MFD ASATs ...

No, the large MFDs are not comparable to Bardens IMO.

I'm not sure any G&L pickup is real close to that but the closest might be the Z-coils, in that they are very clean, high fidelity, transparent pickups that are powerful but also have a low impedance reading (which, like Bardens, can fool you into thinking they're not as powerful as they are).... I love both the Z-coils and Bardens but I think the Bardens are even more "naked" sounding than the Zs, meaning that every nuance of your tone & touch --- good and bad --- will come through. That's why some folks don't like Bardens, if you are a sloppy player, you will hear all the slop clearly.

jc

[sirmyghin]

short answer, having owned numerous sets of Bardens (including in a DG Tele) and large MFD ASATs ...

No, the large MFDs are not comparable to Bardens IMO.

I'm not sure any G&L pickup is real close to that but the closest might be the Z-coils, in that they are very clean, high fidelity, transparent pickups that are powerful but also have a low impedance reading (which, like Bardens, can fool you into thinking they're not as powerful as they are).... I love both the Z-coils and Bardens but I think the Bardens are even more "naked" sounding than the Zs, meaning that every nuance of your tone & touch --- good and bad --- will come through. That's why some folks don't like Bardens, if you are a sloppy player, you will hear all the slop clearly.

jc

Interesting synopsis, I like a dynamic/sensitive pickup but I find a 'naked' pickup to be boring. I like them to have some body and character aside from only mine.

[broadcasterite]

It is possible that the amp I am using would have a far greater impact in sound than swapping out
for Bardens or some other pickup. For small amps, one of my favorite is a Dr. Z Mini. Everything plugged
into that sounds good. For high gain sounds, I use a Marshall 3203.
So far, I am happy with the stock G&L pickups on my Asat.

Maybe the whole thing is this in importance of tone?

1. the player
2. the amp
3. the guitar
4. the loudspeaker configuration

#1 to #4 varies a lot, but a long time ago, I found that getting an amp that I really dug the sound of
made all my guitars sound great and did much more than finding a particular guitar. I sometimes think
about getting one of those Fender Prosonics or Supersonic.....

[fendertweed]

short answer, having owned numerous sets of Bardens (including in a DG Tele) and large MFD ASATs ...

No, the large MFDs are not comparable to Bardens IMO.

I'm not sure any G&L pickup is real close to that but the closest might be the Z-coils, in that they are very clean, high fidelity, transparent pickups that are powerful but also have a low impedance reading (which, like Bardens, can fool you into thinking they're not as powerful as they are).... I love both the Z-coils and Bardens but I think the Bardens are even more "naked" sounding than the Zs, meaning that every nuance of your tone & touch --- good and bad --- will come through. That's why some folks don't like Bardens, if you are a sloppy player, you will hear all the slop clearly.

jc

Interesting synopsis, I like a dynamic/sensitive pickup but I find a 'naked' pickup to be boring. I like them to have some body and character aside from only mine.

this could be approaching the "dancing about architecture" (see Frank Zappa) status in terms of describing sound with words, but I have never found the Z-coils or the Bardens to be boring ... they both have their own character into which the player's inputs become part of the overall dynamic that creates sound (and if we're lucky, "music" ) ... they are dynamic, sensitive, but not boring ... so unless you've played them and decided for yourself if you like them (I'm curious, have you played either or both?), I think we have reached the limit of words being useful to decide ... both of them are also very good "platforms" for pedals and diff. amps, so in that sense the tonal color can change based on what spices you add to the mix (to torture a metaphor).

They don't work for everyone: One person's "high fi" (good) is another's "sterile" (bad); One person's "transparent" or "naked" (good) is another's "shrill" (bad).

[broadcasterite]

You said

>this could be approaching the "dancing about architecture" (see Frank Zappa) status in terms of describing sound with words, but I have never found the Z-coils or the Bardens to be >boring ... they both have their own character into which the player's inputs become part of the overall dynamic that creates sound (and if we're lucky, "music" ) ... they are dynamic, >sensitive, but not boring ... so unless you've played them and decided for yourself if you like them (I'm curious, have you played either or both?), I think we have reached the limit of >words being useful to decide ... both of them are also very good "platforms" for pedals and diff. amps, so in that sense the tonal color can change based on what spices you add to the >mix (to torture a metaphor).

>They don't work for everyone: One person's "high fi" (good) is another's "sterile" (bad); One person's "transparent" or "naked" (good) is another's "shrill" (bad).

I agree. It makes sense to have some pickups with personality. Here is one example - pickup any Gibson SG and it will probably have a lot of personality in the pickups,
in my opinion (whether you like the specific pickups in a particular Gibson SG model, that is individual preference). The Gretsch guitars have a lot of character. There
are some Asian guitars that sound bland and boring, even though the pickups are copies of their U.S. pickups. And some companies, like G&L are smart enough to use
high quality U.S. pickups on both Asian and U.S. models!

I tried the Bardens a long time ago and liked them, but at the time could not judge them properly. I don't remember what they sounded like except for recordings and vague
memories of old Danny Gatton performances I used to see. I have never tried a Z-coil pickup G&L guitar out.

I think these days I know a bit more what I like in terms of guitar tone.
Many years ago, someone in the D.C. area had a Danny Gatton modified Tele at a jam session and I got to play that for a little while. I don't remember what kind of pickups it
had, but it sounded and played perfectly. I used to see Danny G. play all the time. As I understand, he used to hot rod teles for guitarists.

I love these stock G&L pickups on the ASAT classic more and more each day.

[fendertweed]

yep ...

... and what I didn't want to inject into the mix, but will mention now, is that even Bardens sound different over time ... I have friends who have the early Barden pickups and they definitely (to their ears and mine) are less trebly than later ones ... whether this is due to Joe B. and/or Danny allegedly having high end hearing loss over time and compensating, I will not say ... I believe that Joe Barden doesn't agree with that...

but the early Bardens I've heard were a little beefier and less trebly than later ones ... having said that, I have later ones in my S-500 now with no plans to change, and had mid- to later ('92-93) Bardens in my Gatton Tele, and both of those guitars more than made my tone-heaven bar ...

cheers,
Jon

[broadcasterite]

My ears have taken a hammering over the years - I got the buzzing. Not as bad as some people I know... I go between having to crank up the treble on my amps versus
turning the treble down a little if my ears are a sensitive on a particular day. i think I mostly turn the treble up a little, but not extreme....

I am probably more sensitive to extreme treble on some of these pickups. I tried a 52 reissue Fender and while really enjoying that guitar - great neck and sound and
looked really cool - price tag was over $1800,
the treble was more than enough on the bridge pickups - more treble than the G&L Asat classic I own. I definitely prefer the ASAT and I was curious to how a guitar quite
a bit cheaper than the 52 reissue would compare and the ASAT was as good or better (much better in my opinion). Used, I think I paid less than half for the G&L than the
new Fender. I think used G&Ls are still great bargains and the new G&Ls are bargains too, if you compare them against the competition. I had someone at a recent jam
session ask if my ASAT was an imported guitar, since it looked like a copy of a Fender to them.

[broadcasterite]

Today, I ordered some Nocaster pups. From Amazon (see description, below, from Amazon web site).
A while back, I tried some recent Bardens, on a tele, and liked those, too.

What got me to order the Nocasters was playing a Fender Custom Shop tele featuring those pickups. My favorite G&L pups are the p90 type
MFDs. But, for this Asat Classic, I want a particular "vintage" sound. So, I am going to install the Nocaster pups on the Asat Classic.

The telecaster I tried was a 51 reissue Custom Shop Nocaster with a fat neck and was quite a nice playing and sounding guitar. I think when I purchased the ASAT classic (I got in used, in excellent shape), I paid 50% of the USED price of the Custom Shop Nocaster and maybe 33% of the new
price of the Nocasters. The top Fender teles are not inexpensive!

Amazon description of Fender Pups I ordered:
Product Features

Redesigned to sound just like the original,Fender nocaster pickups are true to their heritage.
Built with alnico 3 magnets, enamel coated magnet wire, and a zinc shielding plate to produce that great tele twang and smooth midrange.
Available only as a set of two.
Includes all mounting hardware.
....
....

[louis cyfer]

i have tried to fender nocaster pups, and they are ok. i like the d allen wild cats as well as the new johnny blades (hilland's signature) those are like the bardens just a little brighter and tighter. i also like the fralin tele pups a lot. and bare knuckle makes some that look and sound exactly like the originals, the nocasters don't sound like that to me.

[thunder100]

That's a tough question.

As an aside, I'll add that a whole lot of Danny Gatton's sound is due to the way he plays and that unless you can nail that (and good luck to you!) you won't be all that close to his tone.

+ 1000 !!!

I was just at the G&L website and saw that they offer these. They're dual blade pickups.

This are GotoH's made for G&L and NO they will not bring you even near Danny's sound



Roland

[broadcasterite]

Just because you like a guitarist's tone doesn't mean you expect to play even 1/1000000000th like him. I used to see Danny G. play all the time in the D.C. area.
The equipment does make it more fun to play, though I agree you can give someone who can really play any guitar and amp & they'll run with it. I saw that in New Orleans
with small solid state Peavey guitar amps and Squire guitars that some buskers used. The most popular guitar amp at clubs? A Blues Jr., not some boutique amp.
Danny used to play a Les Paul too, during gigs. Now, here is someone to check out, if you get a chance - Bill Kirchen.
I just am tired of hearing harsh sounds on my guitar and adjusting the tone control is not the answer, at least for me.

[louis cyfer]

Just because you like a guitarist's tone doesn't mean you expect to play even 1/1000000000th like him. I used to see Danny G. play all the time in the D.C. area.
The equipment does make it more fun to play, though I agree you can give someone who can really play any guitar and amp & they'll run with it. I saw that in New Orleans
with small solid state Peavey guitar amps and Squire guitars that some buskers used. The most popular guitar amp at clubs? A Blues Jr., not some boutique amp.
Danny used to play a Les Paul too, during gigs. Now, here is someone to check out, if you get a chance - Bill Kirchen.
I just am tired of hearing harsh sounds on my guitar and adjusting the tone control is not the answer, at least for me.

it's not about expecting to play like them. blarg is talking about the tone, and that comes from the touch. you might hand your guitar to someone and they wouldn't have a harsh tone come out of there. as far as using the tone control, a lot of people use it to tame their sound, that is what it's for. i know many players who never ever turn any control all the way up.

[broadcasterite]

I understand what you are saying about tone and touch. What I am thinking is how it sounds under my own ears, regardless of
how I adjust the tone controls. I can adjust the tone control all over the place with the G&L MFD P90 type pups and get a wonderful tone,
but for whatever reason, I haven't had as much success with the other pups, noting that most people love 'em. Another option is to fit those MFD P90 type pups in, but I wanted to try something different, since I have another G&L with the P90 type MFDs.
Well, thanks everyone for your opinions on this. Gives me more to think about.....

[helle-man]

The Hellecasters did some shows with Danny. We all dug his playing & sound. Danny had a very unique tone that was very difficult to duplicate.

We were supposed to do a show with him at the Bottom Line in NYC when he committed suicide. We turned the show into a big tribute to Danny instead. I got to know his guitar tech Jay Montrose who gave me one of Danny's picks. It was a small white jazz pick, which surprised me.

A few months later at winter NAMM, Jay, who was a killer player himself, jammed with me at somebody's booth. What was interesting is that Jay was getting that "Danny Gatton sound" on whatever guitar was available. He even picked up my ASAT Special and got that sound, which kinda shocked me, because even I couldn't make that guitar sound like that!

What I learned that day was that Jay had been around Danny so much that he picked up a lot of Danny's secrets. And also, it didn't matter what equipment was being played - it was somehow in the fingers.

But what I think was a big part of Danny's sound was this: Danny played the strings hard, and he also appeared to lift the strings up with his RH fingers and let the strings slap against the fingerboard, which seemed to put a "spike" of sound thru the amp, heavily overdriving the preamp stage. Jay understood this and they both could get that sound from any guitar, any amp.

So IMO, it's not the equipment; it's the technique. But the G&L big MFD pickups won't hurt.

My 2¢.
WR

[Boogie Bill]

First of all, the large MFD pickups of the Special are NOT P-90s, and people need to stop referring to them as P-90s. They aren't made like a P-90; they don't sound like a P-90. It's confusing, especialy to the new guys.

Now I'm not into teles, but if you want thick tone, the Gotoh Blades will do thick PAF-type tone, with a touch more clarity, probably due to the narrow aperture. Not sure they will mount in a Tele bridge plate, but it might be worth a try. Try to get your hands on a Legacy Special to get an idea.

As always, Will's comments are right on.

And please, no more references to P-90s.

Bill

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

What I learned that day was that Jay had been around Danny so much that he picked up a lot of Danny's secrets. And also, it didn't matter what equipment was being played - it was somehow in the fingers.

But what I think was a big part of Danny's sound was this:Danny played the strings hard, and he also appeared to lift the strings up with his RH fingers and let the strings slap against the fingerboard, which seemed to put a "spike" of sound thru the amp, heavily overdriving the preamp stage. Jay understood this and they both could get that sound from any guitar, any amp.

So IMO, it's not the equipment; it's the technique. But the G&L big MFD pickups won't hurt.

My 2¢.
WR

This is priceless insight.

Dissecting player technique at this level.

[broadcasterite]

Ok, I won't call the pups P90s! Great to hear about Danny G's technique. Another great from D.C. who I sometimes go see play is
Bill Kirchen.