What do you think? Ebay Guitar Auction Gone wrong.

[JByrd]

So, I sold a guitar to a buyer in Florida. I have been on Ebay for many years and have a 100% positive feedback rating. I've sold and shipped many guitars over the years, but this transaction has gone wrong. the buyer received the guitar and the neck is shattered. I use USPS because I've never had an issue. My auction stated Priorty mail shipping. It did not state that insurance was included in the shipping. I have always left it up to the buyer to inquire if the item would be insured, because it increases the price. Some folks don't want to pay the extra costs. This is how I have run my auctions for 234 transactions. The buyer sent me 1 email telling me of the damage. Before I could respond, they opened an Ebay buyer
Protection case against me that states if we can't work out the issue, Ebay will decide who is in the right and if I lose, I will have to refund the auction price and shipping to the buyer. The buyer states that I described the guitar in perfect condition, (which it was prior to shipping), and it was received damaged. They expect the seller will deliver the item as stated. Once it leaves my hands and USPS takes it I have no control over what happens at that point. So basically, a buyer could receive an item, decide they don't like it. Damage it. then open a case with Ebay demanding their money back from the seller, and say the item wasn't received in the described condition in the auction listing! Does the buyer have no responsibility to clarify the auction terms prior to bidding? My question is, do I ride this out and leave my fate in Ebays hands? Or do I give some sort of refund, even though from my perspective, I have done nothing wrong? Anyone else have this situation happen? Thanks for any input! JByrd

[SJG]

Sounds like it wasn't in a case. Not to take sides but look at it from the buyers point of view. If a buyer receives a splintered up mess are they supposed to just live with it? It would be a hard call as to the liability. It's probably in ebay's fine print somewhere. Unless you had a disclaimer and mentioned an option for insurance, I'm thinking ebay may side with the buyer in such a case. They seem to protect the buyers more than the sellers in my opinion because the buyers are there bread and butter so to speak. The few auctions in which I was the seller, I just bumped the price of shipping to include the insurance cost and stated the insurance is for them if anything happens.
As a side note... I've had three items destroyed by UPS and two by USPS all of which were Insured. Didn't matter being the buyer or seller, I got screwed every time! I use Fedex now days because all of the ground trucks are privately owned and they seem to handle things a little better. The people at UPS and USPS will not be fired for breaking things. Can't say that about the Fedex guy's.
Without a doubt, ebay will make a decision if you don't work it out. Unless you feel the buyer had something to do with the damage, I personally would make it right with the buyer, keep the good karma and raise hell with USPS.

[suave eddie]

I would never ship a guitar (or any other valuable item) without insurance--regardless of the carrier, regardless of the added expense.
The way I see it, you have 2 acceptable options.

1.) Refund the buyer in full, including shipping and have the guitar returned to you at your expense.

2.) Offer the buyer a partial refund to cover the cost of replacing the neck.

Unfortunately the buyer was trigger happy and did not allow you to attempt to work things out prior to filing a claim with eBay.



Definately an unfortunate series of events for everyone involved.

[JByrd]

The guitar was in a padded gig bag, destrung, in a box, then inside a thicker shipping box. The guitar was a set neck guitar, so the neck can't be replaced.
Here is my thing, what keeps someone from buying a guitar, receiving it, deciding they don't want it that bad, damaging it and asking for a refund?

[sam]

Bad deal JByrd,

I had one occassion as a buyer similar to this. Bought a VibroChamp that was list as excellent and had pictures that were the same, Unfortunately to my surprise the amp showed up with a slightly busted cabinet. His posted pics did not show the side that was busted. I promptly emailed the seller and reported the situation. His first reply was that it was in perfect shape when it left (which I doubt based on pics mentioned). My second reply mentioned no pics on the busted side and that he would either have to contact UPS and have it picked up and returned, or I would go the route of ebay dispute, or other means. After arranging on telephone call and live discussion he became a very cooperative seller and arrranged for return and in return we agreed to make no positive or negative ebay comments and save "ratings". I believe he sent it with a crack and it got worse in shipment. In your case you are kind of in a corner from a buyers perspective I would be wary of accepting the guitar. Do you have date/time stamped pictures and shipment date time records? These may help but responsibility on USPS, but they are a 900 pound gorilla in dispute cases. Have not dealt with ebay dispute so do not know how they look at these transactions. I wish you well and hope you get some resolution.

[suave eddie]

Here is my thing, what keeps someone from buying a guitar, receiving it, deciding they don't want it that bad, damaging it and asking for a refund?

That would be a bizarre scenario, but it is not out of ther realm of possibilities.

[JonL]

eBay's policies now heavily favor the buyer whenever there is any issue whatsoever. As a seller, I will ALWAYS ship things insured. If it's a cheap item it's often covered by the default insurance, and if not I'll build the dollar or so into my stated shipping cost. If it's an expensive item, I will INSIST that the buyer pays for insurance. The scenario you described where the buyer damages the item is not so far-fetched, though more often they claim the item was "not as described," keep the item you sent them and send back some piece of crap. They steal your item that way. Lot's of non-professional sellers are abandoning eBay because of this. In the situation you've described -- sorry to say, but you are screwed. The buyer didn't get what he bargained for and eBay rules are that it's 100% your fault. Live and learn. Not much you can do, you're going to eat this unless you can somehow get the USPS to make good. Perhaps the buyer has pictures showing how your adequate packaging was terribly mishandled in shipping.

[BillEvans1956]

Question: Have you seen evidence that the neck is damaged? Real genuine evidence and not some photo of another guitar neck that the buyer is using to con you? Has your buyer returned the guitar? (Sorry if I've missed this from earlier posts, but I ain't got time to read 'em all.) If the neck truly got screwed in shipping and your buyer is decent and not trying to screw you, then I'm sure this can be resolved. But, the fact that he's not even bothered to resolve it with you first and gone straight to eBay makes me smell a rat. Get legal advice now. It will be worth it. Fight this one man!

Good luck.

Bill

[sickbutnottired]

Wow, what a weird,and <censored word>, situation. I agree with Bill, verify, verify, verify. Something seems fishy here, provided it didn't take days for you to get back the first time.

Unfortunately, I think you are going to killed on this, though. It is a lesson for me, though. I live in a relatively rural area (MT) and the guitar selection within and 8 hour drive from my place is nonexistent. I have bought and sold quite a few used guitars on ebay. I mean, i kinda borrow them. I'm careful not to pay to much, then try em. If we make friends I keep it, if not, let someone else have a go. I have sent a couple of them uninsured, but I don't think I'll do that again.

Best of luck to you.

[jonc]

insurance, the reality of filing a claim aside, is more for the seller's piece of mind than the buyer so i always include it. nothing's more important than your good name so i would take steps to protect that. even if it means eating this one. you have to hope and trust, unless you can positively prove it, the buyer was on the up and up even if it sounds fishy or whatever. we all know thieves and scammers are everywhere and fortunately most of the time dealing with other musicians works out just fine. it's your call of course but personally i would look to deal with this quickly and amicably and move on. good luck. hope things work out ok for you.

[jackassrock]

I use Fedex now days because all of the ground trucks are privately owned and they seem to handle things a little better. The people at UPS and USPS will not be fired for breaking things. Can't say that about the Fedex guy's.

I hope Fedex guys get fired for that crap. Just last week I bought an old Yamaha Thirty112 on Ebay and it got destroyed in transit. I live downtown and my door is in an alley that is closed off by an 8ft tall fence/gate. The Fedex guy thought it would be a good idea, since I wasn't home, to throw the box over the fence. Needless to say the cabinet was busted, the speaker baffle broken, and the amp doesn't even power up anymore. I had to get a written estimate for repair, and submit it to get my money back, which I did, but there's one less decent little vintage amp in this world, and I'm pissed. Luckily it was insured.

I mean, what kind of idiot carrier throws a 35 pound box over an 8ft fence ?

Good Luck J, I hope it works out for you.

[SJG]

Did it have an airmail sticker on it?
Sorry, not funny.
Coundn't help myself.

[jackassrock]

Why I oughtta !

[Tallboy56]

Does ebay have FOB terminology in their policies? Without trying to spell out all the shipping lingo(which I am no expert), anytime something is shipped, the terms of the shipment should be defined in the FOB(free on board or freight on board) documentation. An example that could help your cause is if your shipment was FOB shipping point, you only guarantee that the shipment was in good shape when it left your possession. It is on the carrier to get the shipment to the receiver undamaged. Claims would be between the carrier and receiver. If the terms of the shipment was FOB destination, then you guarantee that it gets to the recipient in good shape so claims would be between you and the carrier. These "rules"(as well as many, many others) apply to commercial shipping. You may check with the carrier(USPS?) and /or ebay to see what the fine print of their policies are. Good luck!

[hubcapserf]

I guess I am reviving an old thread, but, sorry to hear about your dilemma JByrd.

I believe that ebay transactions are highly risky to both parties. After having problems that ended up costing me (as the buyer) return shipping costs, I have decided to never buy an item over 50 dollars on-line because of the risk involved. Thank God I am not in BFE and have to rely on the internet to buy stuff.

Just about everyone I know has at least one story about an ebay auction gone wrong. Most people I talk to won't buy on ebay any more. Too many things can go wrong. Unfortunately.

I do hope you work out your situation in a way that you don't lose too much. Please keep posting the outcome.

peace-