ASAT Classic Signature Logo and other questions

[Murph2010]

I recently purchased a 1990 ASAT Classic Signature guitar and I have some questions.

The finish on the headstock seems to be a semi-gloss satin finish. It's not high gloss like the rest of the neck.

The Logo is raised enough that if you run your finger over it you could read it like braille. In the right light you can make out what looks like very, very fine swirl/sand marks on the headstock but they are very difficult to make out.

The neck has a 2 on the heel. Does this mean it's a "Second" or a #2 Neck?

The tone control has a resistor going to ground rather than the lug going directly to ground. Is this normal for the ASAT Classic Sig? There's a schematic for an ASAT here on GBL but I didn't see one for the ASAT Classic which could be different.

Expert opinions on these matters are much appreciated

[sirmyghin]

the neck could have worn to that 'high gloss' through years of playing, opposed to a relatively untouched headstock in the same finish.

About all I can contribute.

[Murph2010]

I also considered your point about the finish. I did find a schematic online from G&L and the 6.8K resistor to ground is stock.

[Craig]

I recently purchased a 1990 ASAT Classic Signature guitar and I have some questions.

The finish on the headstock seems to be a semi-gloss satin finish. It's not high gloss like the rest of the neck.

The Logo is raised enough that if you run your finger over it you could read it like braille. In the right light you can make out what looks like very, very fine swirl/sand marks on the headstock but they are very difficult to make out.

The neck has a 2 on the heel. Does this mean it's a "Second" or a #2 Neck?

The tone control has a resistor going to ground rather than the lug going directly to ground. Is this normal for the ASAT Classic Sig? There's a schematic for an ASAT here on GBL but I didn't see one for the ASAT Classic which could be different.

Expert opinions on these matters are much appreciated

I'm not aware of the factory doing a satin finish on any headstocks of glossy finished necks. Perhaps a previous owner
glossed up the satin finished neck and left the headstock as is.

G&L does not (nor never have) sold "seconds". If a neck did not pass QC and was not repairable, it was cut up.
The 2 on the neck heel could be an indicator that it's a #2 neck or it could be the craftsman's number who built the neck.

If your ASAT Classic does not have the Leo Fender signature decal on the upper bout of the body, it is not a Signature Series
model. See Leo Signature Series decal which is in
the Knowledgebase forum: General G&L Questions sub-forum.

Hope this helps

[Katefan]

Does in fact your neck say its an 1990?

If so, as far as I know, it should have a gloss finish. The change over happened ~ 92 right around the time BBE took over.

Its possible your guitar neck is a couple years newer and got attached to an older body... there were quite a few transistional models...but you will know whether this is the case or not if your neck has a 1990 neckstamp.

It may be possible that it was done as a custom option tho I don't recall hearing satin necks were offered. THat or it was resprayed - may explain the raised logo. I don't have enough expertise in this area.

You may find more info on GGJaguar's site or by asking the Co.
BOth sites are in the Links section.

Agree with Craig on the 2 - if your fingerboard has a round radius - its the neck designation #2 = 1 5/8 nut width and 7.5" radius.

Cheers,

Kf

[Thumbs]

Here are pics of the guitar in question. Yes, it was mine until I sold it to Brian recently.

Here are some pics. Yep, same guitar as my avatar, with the original pickguard on it. He says a friend of his told him it was not stock and likely made up of "parts".

The guitar I sold him is in VG+ condition, almost mint. No neck wear to speak of as she's been a case queen. I have seen this same neck finish on a Leo Sig. S-500 I sold to another member here. It is not the same gloss finish as used today by G&L. I always stand behind every thing I sell. I told him to send it to Tim as he has the same guitar, and that I would stand by Tim's conclusion.

This guitar has been registered here. He says the gold sticker indicates it was made in 1994. This guitar came with all the case candy tags, docs, etc.
I'm only posting this here because it's a lesson for all of us.

[darwinohm]

I had made a post but deleted it after reading Craigs post.-- Darwin

Here is some of the content that I posted:

Murph2010 wrote:
[quote]The finish on the headstock seems to be a semi-gloss satin finish. It's not high gloss like the rest of the neck.[quote]

I have done a lot of painting and this is plausible. The top of the neck is a lot more difficult to paint. The decal is painted over and you have to put thin coats on initially or the decal will lift on the edges. The same it true for the maple fingerboard. If you applied heavy coats to the fretboard it may run from the edge of the frets and pool. In this case, light coats would most likely be applied therefore the different sheen.


[quote]The Logo is raised enough that if you run your finger over it you could read it like braille. In the right light you can make out what looks like very, very fine swirl/sand marks on the headstock but they are very difficult to make out.[quote]

This is also very plausible. The logos on all of my G&Ls can be felt. The necks are most likely spray painted and not sanded and buffed. For the decal to be buried or covered completely you would have to build up the clearcoat, wet sand, and them buff smooth. This would add tremendously to production costs. Even at that after several years the decal edges would start to appear due to the shrinkage of the poly. I believe that G&L used poly during this time. This would be much more accelerated if it were painted with nirto as it shrinks quite rapidly. That is why large metal flake paint will get bumpy after years of shrinkage. So, I am not at all suspicious of this. I think the other questions were already answered by Craig.

Expert opinions on these matters are much appreciated

That is not my expert opinion but based on observations over the years. Hope this helps--- Darwin

[Thumbs]

My apologies to one and all here on the board. I've edited out the offending sentence in my post. I hope Craig will do the same to further erase my error by editing or removing his post with the offending sentence. I don't want the buyer/seller lesson to be lost; which was my reason for even posting. Yes, it had to do with an off-line email I rec'd. Again, my apologies.

Peace,

Thumbs

[Craig]

My apologies to one and all here on the board. I've edited out the offending sentence in my post. I hope Craig will do the same to further erase my error by editing or removing his post with the offending sentence. I don't want the buyer/seller lesson to be lost; which was my reason for even posting. Yes, it had to do with an off-line email I rec'd. Again, my apologies.

Peace,

Thumbs

Thanks Wayne. I have removed my post.

All is good again - multiple lessons have not been lost

[Murph2010]

OK...Thank you to all who responded. A few points.

1. I asked Wayne, in a private email, who he got the guitar from as he was not the original owner. I've heard of Fender Experts who have been in the business for years being duped when buying vintage guitars. No one is perfect.

2. I have NO way of knowing if Wayne is a G&L expert even though he buys/sells a lot of G&L's.

3. No one relies on the source of the purchase to verify the purchase do they?
Do you buy a coin from a dealer, have questions about it, and rely on that dealer as your sole source for information?

4. I once owned a '91 ASAT Classic Signature guitar and my decal wasn't raised like this one and the headstock sheen was the same as the neck. The guitar came from G&L to a Rep to me. I know it was authentic. Hence the questions about this headstock.

5. I'm glad to hear the 2 on the heel isn't a "second"

6. I did find a schematic to verify the 68K resistor to ground and I verified the neck and body are both from Dec 1990 as Wayne had indicated.

7. With all of the vintage guitar scams going on in the last 30 yrs one can't fault a buyer for investigating a purchase. I meant no offense to Wayne, and if you notice I NEVER mentioned WHO I purchased it from.....I left it anonymous. But since he came forward himself he should realize that he's actually better off having someone like me purchasing the guitar. If I was an idiot who suspected something may not be quite right and didn't say anything or never investigated the matter would I be likely to recommend that seller to someone else?

I purchased a used BMW this past Feb that had some issues. They turned out to be minor and in fact had nothing to do with the private small dealer who sold it to me. I've since given his business card to a few people who liked my car and inquired where I got it.

I was in the service business as an elec. tech and later as an owner/operator with more than 20 employees for many years. I did contract work with two large muliti-national co.'s. If you do quality work...you shouldn't feel 'dised when someone asked questions. It's their right...they are paying you for a product or service. That's just good business.

8. Given the remarks concerning the guitar....what else would one do but investigate and go to GBL and other sources and ask questions about the guitar? Only a fool would do nothing. I'm just being cautious. I don't see anything wrong with that.

9. People register guitars here by S/N....That in and of itself proves NOTHING other than the S/N'd neck or S/N Plate came from an original G&L. It doesn't prove anthing else about any guitar in question. If anyone knows anything about art you know that some famous pieces of art displayed in museums were later proven to be copies. If someone can copy a Monet or another famous artist....do you think it's impossible to reproduce a G&L, Fender, Gibson???

Sorry for any confusion. Once again...no offense to Wayne...I would have never mentioned his name. I do owe it to myself to be thorough do I not?

I will have an expert in person opinion this weekend. That's the best I can do along with input from GBL.

Thanks again for all the input

[willross]

Just stopping by to give Wayne a "Thumbs" up.


Cheers,

Will

[Murph2010]

OK...The issue is resolved.

I had the guitar looked at by a G&L expert.
His intial reaction was curious as he has the exact same model ASAT but noted that his decal was NOT raised like mine. He intially thought the decal was on top of the finish....BUT after putting on his glasses and checking it out at different angles in the light he concluded that it was indeed under the finish. They just didn't put a heavy coat on the front of the headstock.

He also knew the handwritting of the final inspector of the guitar noted on the yellow tag. That along with the inspection card and other original case candy that came with it concluded it was an Original ASAT Classic made in Dec 1990.

So. No offense meant to Wayne personally as even the expert hesitated for a moment and continued to inspect the guitar. It wasn't a slam dunk 2 second look to come to the decision. So...Wayne sold me a genuine G&L and I'm happy an expert assured me of such....The expert?....Tim of Buffalo Bros. I went to the Arlington,TX Guitar show specifically to have him look at it. Nice buch of guys!!!

All is well.

Thanks for all the input.