Early ASAT Pickups - A Couple Questions.. Special, SC-1, etc

[Chris H]

Hi All,

I must admit I am not particularly savvy when it comes to pickups & wiring, so forgive me if this topic has been covered elsewhere. Feel free to point me towards resources!

I am curious about the pickups on the original ASAT (what would be called the ASAT Special today). These are the jumbo MFD single pickups of course.

What is the difference between the neck and bridge pickup? And are they wired in parallel or series?

Now, on the ASAT S-3, with an added middle pickup and 5-way switch, which pickup would you select to go in the middle, and how would that be wired?

If I look at G&L's description of this pickup on their shop, I must say I get a bit confused... what on earth is the "other" they are referring to?

From the shop page:
G&L Magnetic Field Design pickup as used on all ASAT Special, SC-2 and ASAT S-3 (neck and middle position only) guitars. Available in Black, White and Crème.
For ASAT Classic Custom (neck position), ASAT S-3 (bridge position), please see Jumbo MFD single coil (other).


Maybe it's easier if I just explain why I'm asking these questions... I am reverting a 1987 ASAT with an S-3 mod back to its original 2-pickup configuration, and I want to (a) make sure the right pickups are going back into the neck & bridge positions, and (b) I'd like to know exactly what that middle pickup is.

Lastly, does anyone know what pickup would have been used in an original 1982 SC-1? Bridge?

Many thanks in advance for your help!

[Craig]

Hi All,

I must admit I am not particularly savvy when it comes to pickups & wiring, so forgive me if this topic has been covered elsewhere. Feel free to point me towards resources!

I am curious about the pickups on the original ASAT (what would be called the ASAT Special today). These are the jumbo MFD single pickups of course.

What is the difference between the neck and bridge pickup? And are they wired in parallel or series?

Now, on the ASAT S-3, with an added middle pickup and 5-way switch, which pickup would you select to go in the middle, and how would that be wired?

If I look at G&L's description of this pickup on their shop, I must say I get a bit confused... what on earth is the "other" they are referring to?

From the shop page:
G&L Magnetic Field Design pickup as used on all ASAT Special, SC-2 and ASAT S-3 (neck and middle position only) guitars. Available in Black, White and Crème.
For ASAT Classic Custom (neck position), ASAT S-3 (bridge position), please see Jumbo MFD single coil (other).


Maybe it's easier if I just explain why I'm asking these questions... I am reverting a 1987 ASAT with an S-3 mod back to its original 2-pickup configuration, and I want to (a) make sure the right pickups are going back into the neck & bridge positions, and (b) I'd like to know exactly what that middle pickup is.

Lastly, does anyone know what pickup would have been used in an original 1982 SC-1? Bridge?

Many thanks in advance for your help!

Here are some reference posts in our G&L Knowledgebase forum to check out:
List of pickups used in G&L guitars
List of Regular Production ASAT-style guitars (USA)
List of Special Edition & Non-Production ASAT-style guitars
Production List of G&L Instruments (USA)
Measuring Pickup DC-R

Hope this helps.

[Craig]

If I look at G&L's description of this pickup on their shop, I must say I get a bit confused... what on earth is the "other" they are referring to?

From the shop page:
G&L Magnetic Field Design pickup as used on all ASAT Special, SC-2 and ASAT S-3 (neck and middle position only) guitars. Available in Black, White and Crème.
For ASAT Classic Custom (neck position), ASAT S-3 (bridge position), please see Jumbo MFD single coil (other).

In 2014 I pointed out this error to G&L: it should have been labeled as the "SC-2 bridge pickup".
At that time, I had suggested this change for the Pickup - Jumbo MFD single coil (other) entry:
"Other G&L Jumbo MFD single coil pickups: ASAT Classic Custom (Neck Position), SC-2 (RW/RP bridge position).
Available in Black, White and VCrème. For ASAT Special and SC-2 (neck position) models, please see Jumbo MFD Single Coil (STANDARD)."
Reference post: http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewt ... 29#p106529.

I recently emailed the webmaster for the G&L On-Line store to find out if and when the Jumbo MFD Single Coil (other) pickups are going to be offered again.

Stay tuned.

[Chris H]

Hi Craig,

Thanks a lot for this info, though in this case more info = more questions! :-D

Like I said, I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to pickups & wiring, so bear with me on some clarification...

So the key difference of the MFD Jumbo "other" pickups from "standard" is it's reverse winding/reverse polarity? And within "standard" the only difference between neck & bridge pickups is a slightly different size to accommodate angled or straight? What size is the "other" pickup, seeing that it was apparently used in both neck & bridge positions?

And the SC-2 had an "other" (RW/RP) bridge pickup and a "standard" neck pickup, making it different from the ASAT Special, which has a "standard" neck & bridge pickup?

I would have (naively) assumed that the SC-2 and an ASAT Special had the same pickups and wiring...

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly to my situation, what about the S-3? This is not addressed in your error amendment. I've assumed that S-3 was wired like a Strat, with the middle pickup RW/RP, which in this case would require the "other" pickup... or is this an incorrect assumption?

Since I have an original ASAT with an aftermarket middle-pickup mod (which was possibly done by Gabe Dellevigne at ESI back in the day), I am still a bit unclear about which pickups I have and in what position they are.

[Tooslowhand]

Reverse Wind / Reverse Polarity is used in the bridge position of single coil pickup guitars to provide humbucking functionality when the bridge and front pickups are used together. The SC-2 bridge pickup has higher output than the "standard" ASAT Special jumbo MFD.

[Craig]

Reverse Wind / Reverse Polarity is used in the bridge position of single coil pickup guitars to provide humbucking functionality when the bridge and front pickups are used together. The SC-2 bridge pickup has higher output than the "standard" ASAT Special jumbo MFD.

Regarding the SC-2 bridge pickup having higher output ...; this applied only to the revisited SC-2 model built in 2008 (August 1st) - January 2018. The bridge pickup was the same as the Custom Creation ASAT Super Special Build model, which is more heavily wound with lighter gauge wire then the standard MFD Jumbo single coil pickup.

[Craig]

Hi Craig,

Thanks a lot for this info, though in this case more info = more questions!

Like I said, I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to pickups & wiring, so bear with me on some clarification...

So the key difference of the MFD Jumbo "other" pickups from "standard" is it's reverse winding/reverse polarity? And within "standard" the only difference between neck & bridge pickups is a slightly different size to accommodate angled or straight? What size is the "other" pickup, seeing that it was apparently used in both neck & bridge positions?

And the SC-2 had an "other" (RW/RP) bridge pickup and a "standard" neck pickup, making it different from the ASAT Special, which has a "standard" neck & bridge pickup?

I would have (naively) assumed that the SC-2 and an ASAT Special had the same pickups and wiring...

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly to my situation, what about the S-3? This is not addressed in your error amendment. I've assumed that S-3 was wired like a Strat, with the middle pickup RW/RP, which in this case would require the "other" pickup... or is this an incorrect assumption?

Since I have an original ASAT with an aftermarket middle-pickup mod (which was possibly done by Gabe Dellevigne at ESI back in the day), I am still a bit unclear about which pickups I have and in what position they are.

Your assumption that the S-3 was wired like a S-500/Legacy, with the middle pickup RW/RP is correct for the ASAT S-3 built in 1998-2001. The G&L On-Line Store does not offer the ASAT S-3 middle RW/RP pickup nor do they offer the ASAT S-3 bridge pickup wound the same as the ASAT S-3 neck pickup. It is likely that the middle and bridge pickups were custom rewound for your converted ASAT. If you have a volt meter you could check the DC-R of all three pickups to help determine this.

If you think that this guitar was done by Gabe, you can contact him via his ESI website. He might be able to recommend someone who could have your bridge pickup re-wound to the proper 1987 bridge pickup specs.

Hope this helps.

[Chris H]

Ok, so the S-3 is wired with a RW/RP middle pickup, glad to have that clarified.

But why would the bridge and neck pickup need to be wound differently for an S-3? Couldn't you just use the original jumbo MFDs from the 1987 ASAT and pop a new "other"/RW/RP in the middle? What am I missing?

If I do check the values on my pickups, should I expect to see the following from unmodified pickups?:

Pre-1992 = 4.4K - 4.9K
Middle RW/RP = 7.25-7.3K (is this the "other" pickup??)

I did indeed email Gabe with questions about this mod and will update here with any pertinent info.

[Craig]

Ok, so the S-3 is wired with a RW/RP middle pickup, glad to have that clarified.

But why would the bridge and neck pickup need to be wound differently for an S-3? Couldn't you just use the original jumbo MFDs from the 1987 ASAT and pop a new "other"/RW/RP in the middle? What am I missing?

If I do check the values on my pickups, should I expect to see the following from unmodified pickups?:

Pre-1992 = 4.4K - 4.9K
Middle RW/RP = 7.25-7.3K (is this the "other" pickup??)

I did indeed email Gabe with questions about this mod and will update here with any pertinent info.

No, because that would give you a Neck (standard), Middle (RW/RP) and Bridge (RW/RP), so that Middle and Bridge would not be hum cancelling when selected together.
Well, you could swap the Neck and Middle so that Neck and Middle plus Middle and Bridge would be hum cancelling.

Your Middle RW/RP pickup may be the same as the Trinity Special Edition middle pickup.
See: ASAT Trinity Special Edition: Rarebird.

[Chris H]

This is my last thought before I sign off for the day...

It looks like the "other" pickups used to be offered in both neck and bridge sizes (see here), therefore with an existing ASAT, it would have been an easy task to move the standard neck pickup into the middle position, add an "other neck" in the neck position, and leave the standard bridge pickup alone.

That should preserve all phase relationships and hum-cancelling, while only requiring one new pickup. With that in mind, it is VERY perplexing why they would designate the "other bridge" pickup for an S-3.

Or... am I missing something again?

I am working on the assumption that (a) my guitar's mods were done in a time when one could easily order the "other" pickups, (b) that the "other" pickups were indeed offered in both bridge & neck sizes, and (c) "standard neck" means RW/RP relative to "other neck" and "standard bridge" means RW/RP relative to "other bridge".

I'll return to this tomorrow, but thanks for all the input and help. I'm learning, albeit slowly...

[Craig]

This is my last thought before I sign off for the day...

It looks like the "other" pickups used to be offered in both neck and bridge sizes (see here), therefore with an existing ASAT, it would have been an easy task to move the standard neck pickup into the middle position, add an "other neck" in the neck position, and leave the standard bridge pickup alone.

That should preserve all phase relationships and hum-cancelling, while only requiring one new pickup. With that in mind, it is VERY perplexing why they would designate the "other bridge" pickup for an S-3.

Or... am I missing something again?

I am working on the assumption that (a) my guitar's mods were done in a time when one could easily order the "other" pickups, (b) that the "other" pickups were indeed offered in both bridge & neck sizes, and (c) "standard neck" means RW/RP relative to "other neck" and "standard bridge" means RW/RP relative to "other bridge".

I'll return to this tomorrow, but thanks for all the input and help. I'm learning, albeit slowly...

All ASAT S-3 models and special editions of the S-3 done by G&L have the middle pickup wound RW/RP and the Neck and Bridge pickups wound in the same direction and in phase.
Your suggestion to convert an ASAT/ASAT Special to an ASAT S-3 will yield the Neck (overwound standard polarity) the Middle (standard wound/polarity neck) and the Bridge (standard RW/RP). Pickup selection 2 (Neck/Middle) will not be hum-cancelling but selection 4 (Middle/Bridge) will be hum-cancelling.

A big typo was made in the MFD Jumbo single coil (other) description. The "other" Bridge pickup is supposed to be for the SC-2 (8/2008 and later) models. It should not have said ASAT S-3 Bridge pickup. I have heard that the On-Line Store may be bring back the MFD Jumbo single coil (other) pickups and have asked the webmaster for the G&L On-Line Store if they are and when. I am awaiting an answer and If they do bring those pickups back, I will be contacting several of my G&L contacts to try and get this cleared up once and for all.

Stay tuned.

[Chris H]

I appreciate all of the info and input. Obviously my PUP knowledge is in the "just enough to be dangerous" category, but it's making more sense now. I got hung up on G&L's terminology ("standard" vs "other") and confounded that with having something to do with winding and polarity.

So, if you could please confirm that I have the following facts correct, I think I've got it mostly sorted now (hopefully!)...
[I've chosen to say normal wind & polarity, so as to avoid confusion with G&L's "standard" set of pickups.]

The "standard" MFD jumbo pickups (available for sale today) consist of the following:
- A normal wind & normal polarity neck pickup
- A reverse wind & reverse polarity bridge pickup
- Such a set is found in the ASAT Special

And the "other" MFD jumbo pickups (which used to be available online) refer to the following:
- An overwound normal wind & normal polarity neck pickup (as used on the ASAT Classic Custom)
- An overwound reverse wind & reverse polarity bridge pickup (as used on the modern SC-2 (8/2008 and later))

Where I seem to have gone astray is my incorrect assumption that ""standard neck" means reversed relative to "other neck", and "standard bridge" means reversed relative to "other bridge"". I think this was my big misunderstanding.

In other words, as far as G&L's "standard" and "other" sets are concerned, a neck pickup is always normal wind & normal polarity and a bridge pickup is always reverse wind & reverse polarity. "Other" in this case refers to overwinding (or higher output).

Lastly, when talking about the S-3 or the Trinity Special Edition guitars, these used special bridge pickups (normal wind/polarity) and special middle pickups (RW/RP), which have nothing to do with G&L's "standard" and "other" MFD jumbos.

Have I got it sorted out??

So... if only the modern SC-2s used the overwound "other" bridge pickup, does that mean that the early 80's version have the exact same pickups as the original ASAT?

[Craig]

I appreciate all of the info and input. Obviously my PUP knowledge is in the "just enough to be dangerous" category, but it's making more sense now. I got hung up on G&L's terminology ("standard" vs "other") and confounded that with having something to do with winding and polarity.

So, if you could please confirm that I have the following facts correct, I think I've got it mostly sorted now (hopefully!)...
[I've chosen to say normal wind & polarity, so as to avoid confusion with G&L's "standard" set of pickups.]

The "standard" MFD jumbo pickups (available for sale today) consist of the following:
- A normal wind & normal polarity neck pickup
- A reverse wind & reverse polarity bridge pickup
- Such a set is found in the ASAT Special

And the "other" MFD jumbo pickups (which used to be available online) refer to the following:
- An overwound normal wind & normal polarity neck pickup (as used on the ASAT Classic Custom)
- An overwound reverse wind & reverse polarity bridge pickup (as used on the modern SC-2 (8/2008 and later))

Where I seem to have gone astray is my incorrect assumption that ""standard neck" means reversed relative to "other neck", and "standard bridge" means reversed relative to "other bridge"". I think this was my big misunderstanding.

In other words, as far as G&L's "standard" and "other" sets are concerned, a neck pickup is always normal wind & normal polarity and a bridge pickup is always reverse wind & reverse polarity. "Other" in this case refers to overwinding (or higher output).

Lastly, when talking about the S-3 or the Trinity Special Edition guitars, these used special bridge pickups (normal wind/polarity) and special middle pickups (RW/RP), which have nothing to do with G&L's "standard" and "other" MFD jumbos.

Have I got it sorted out??

So... if only the modern SC-2s used the overwound "other" bridge pickup, does that mean that the early 80's version have the exact same pickups as the original ASAT?

Yes, you got it sorted out, except (sorry) I want to clarify the "ASAT Classic Custom" models as being the ASAT Classic Custom models built in 2002-2012
with the pole piece bushings longer than the standard ASAT Special pickup and an extra 200 windings were added. The reason for this clarity is because
there are later Limited Editions which use a standard Jumbo MFD single coil in the Neck position.
They are: Sweetwater ASAT Classic Custom Limited Edition (2020), Andertons ASAT Classic Custom Limited Edition (2022), and Murphy's Music ASAT Classic Custom Limited Edition (2022).

Yes, the early 80's version (in Broadcaster, SC-1, SC-2 models) have the same pickups as the original ASAT model (pre-1992).

Other than the Neck pickup on the ASAT S-3 being the same as the "standard" MFD jumbo neck pickup, the Middle and Bridge pickups are not available nor
were never available from the G&L On-Line Store. The Trinity SE pickups were custom wound to G&L dealer Buffalo Brother's Tim and Bob Page's specs and
were never offered for sale on the G&L On-Line Store.

BTW, I think the Middle pickup in your ASAT S-3 built by Gabe has the Middle pickup wound like the one for the Trinity SE.

Hope this helps.