Legacy PTB Control - The Emperors New Clothes?

[Ampig]

Try as I might, I don't hear any noticable change in tone when adjusting the bass control on my 93 Legacy Tribute. I've heard some say that it's subtle, but I'm not sure it has any real value.

[Danley]

What amp are you using? I've noticed some amps have less sensitivity toward the bass control.

[Ampig]

Using a Fender Super Champ X2

[Danley]

I've noticed a lot of older tech. modeling amps in particular and small solid state combos don't really have the sensitivity for a lot of wiring tricks such as the ptb, bright switches on Fender Jaguars, etc.

My '83 F100 has a dramatic swing from the passive bass knob when I play through my Silverface Champ, my Vox AC4 or even GarageBand through an audio interface (it's almost essential to use,) but I plugged into my niece's Fender Frontman amp once, and the knob really did almost nothing. The same was true of an older Line 6 .

I don't have as much experience with the modern PTB in the Legacy though. I'd check through other amps and also look at the wiring; it may not even be connected if it's a used guitar.

[Ampig]

Mine is a 93 Legacy Tribute. I checked and the circuitry appears intact and correct. Any gurus know of a way of testing it with a multimeter?

[john o]

i think G&L started the tribute series in 2003. what's your serial #? 1st 2 #'s are the year, 2nd 2 are the month

[Aussie]

i think G&L started the tribute series in 2003.

The MIJ tributes (which weren't imported to the USA) go back to at least '98 but I don't think they go back much further.
Cheers, Robbie

[cbm]

I have two guitars with the PTB system, a Legacy Special, and a Comanche. These guitars use pickups with considerably more bass than the stock single coils, and the PTB system is invaluable on both of these instruments. That said, I could see that the bass control might be exceedingly subtle with normal single coils., as there's just not as much bass to roll off

[Ampig]

i think G&L started the tribute series in 2003. what's your serial #? 1st 2 #'s are the year, 2nd 2 are the month

My mistake. Brain meltdown. Yes it's a 2003.

[Ampig]

....... I could see that the bass control might be exceedingly subtle with normal single coils., as there's just not as much bass to roll off

Right now there's a Seymour Duncan Lil 59 in the bridge position and the pot has no effect on it.

[Danley]

You've checked the circuitry right- including component values? Wonder if it's even a faulty pot...

[yowhatsshakin]

....... I could see that the bass control might be exceedingly subtle with normal single coils., as there's just not as much bass to roll off

Right now there's a Seymour Duncan Lil 59 in the bridge position and the pot has no effect on it.

That seems to indicate that when the pickup was swapped out, the PTB wiring harness was swapped out too. The traditional Fender Strat wiring harness is a master volume, separate tone control for the neck pickup, and a separate tone control for the middle pickup. NO tone control for the bridge pup. Try if your controls go with the separate pups.

- Jos

[Ampig]

You've checked the circuitry right- including component values? Wonder if it's even a faulty pot...

That's what I've started to wonder. I haven't desoldered any components for testing, but I am going to test the bass tone pot.

[Ampig]

[/quote]
That seems to indicate that when the pickup was swapped out, the PTB wiring harness was swapped out too. The traditional Fender Strat wiring harness is a master volume, separate tone control for the neck pickup, and a separate tone control for the middle pickup. NO tone control for the bridge pup. Try if your controls go with the separate pups.

- Jos[/quote]

To clarify, the bass tone pot doesn't work on any of the pickups. I just mentioned the Lil 59 bridge because it's a fairly high output pickup.

[DanDoulogos]

Well, if all were wired correctly (and all the pots and caps are the size they're supposed to be), you'd definitely be hearing the bass get thin as you filtered out the bass.

I'd get in there with a multi-meter and see what's what. Even with a bad amp, coupled to a tone-deaf ear, the cutting out of bass from the signal should be obvious. Something ain't right.

[Ampig]

Opened her up today and desoldered the bass tone pot. It reads good. That is if it's supposed to be a 250K pot. I didn't pull off the cap because I didn't want to risk damaging it and I don't have a meter for reading caps. If the cap is open, how would that effect the signal?

[Danley]

Isn't the bass pot supposed to be 1 meg?

[yowhatsshakin]

Isn't the bass pot supposed to be 1 meg?

Yup, when talking about a PTB system. And Reverse Audio Taper (antilog) at that. See this page on my website which contains links to diagrams on the archived G&L website. Also see this album in the Gallery.

- Jos

[DanDoulogos]

Well, a 250K pot instead of the 1M reverse audio taper is not going to do much to thin out the bass.

That kind of error makes me suspicious of the whole circuit. If it is truly wired up like a PTB circuit? Perhaps the person who did it, mixed up the pots, putting the 1 MB pot in the wrong place? Check and see if one of the other pots is your missing 1M.

My guess however is that they'll all be 250K pots (like a strat), and that whoever wired it up, didn't realize you need different value pots/caps for a PTB circuit.

At least you know that the Emperor, in your case, isn't wearing his PTB suit... yet.

[Ampig]

Isn't the bass pot supposed to be 1 meg?

Yup, when talking about a PTB system. And Reverse Audio Taper (antilog) at that. See this page on my website which contains links to diagrams on the archived G&L website. Also see this album in the Gallery.

- Jos

The schematic from the GBL website shows a 200pF cap coming off the wiper of the volume pot. The schematic from your site doesn't. Which is correct or will it make a difference?

I'm just going to order all new pots and caps and rewire the guitar.
What's a good source for these components?
These are "mini" pots, correct?

[yowhatsshakin]

Isn't the bass pot supposed to be 1 meg?

Yup, when talking about a PTB system. And Reverse Audio Taper (antilog) at that. See this page on my website which contains links to diagrams on the archived G&L website. Also see this album in the Gallery.

- Jos

The schematic from the GBL website shows a 200pF cap coming off the wiper of the volume pot. The schematic from your site doesn't. Which is correct or will it make a difference?

I'm just going to order all new pots and caps and rewire the guitar.
What's a good source for these components?
These are "mini" pots, correct?

Hey Ampig,

I will just share my experience: I have hardly seen a schematic drawn by Paul Gagon out on the web that is correct. Most (if not all) seem to have extra elements where they shouldn't or miss elements where they should. I wonder whether these errors were introduced on purpose just to make sure one would be able to detect when the circuit is non-original.

In short, the volume pot should have a 200pF treble bleed cap. I will check this statement this week by taking some pictures I still want to put up on that page. So stay tuned!

Hope this helps,

- Jos

[Ampig]

Thanks Jos.

So in order to rewire, I'll need:
250K audio taper mini potentiometer
500K audio taper mini potentiometer
1 Meg, reverse audio taper mini potentiometer
200pF capacitor
.022uF capacitor
.002uF capacitor

Am I missing any details?
Where can I get these?

[DanDoulogos]

Last time I did it, I looked up what I wanted on Stewmac, then ordered it (or most of it) from Amazon. I think I couldn't find a piece or two in the exact size I needed, so I had to combine components to make a circuit equivalent (caps add their capacitances together when wired in parallel for instance, such that a 100 pF cap wired in parallel with another 100 pF cap is the same as a 200 pFc cap, etc.).

Let us know which if you find a site that has everything you need (I'd like to bookmark it)

[Craig]

Thanks Jos.

So in order to rewire, I'll need:
250K audio taper mini potentiometer
500K audio taper mini potentiometer
1 Meg, reverse audio taper mini potentiometer
200pF capacitor
.022uF capacitor
.002uF capacitor

Am I missing any details?
Where can I get these?

G&L sells the pots on their On-Line store: G&L ELECTRONICS.
Also, see in our Gallery: Album: Legacy Diagrams.

Hope this helps.

[Tooslowhand]

I have had good luck with guitarelectronics.com, guitarpartsresource.com, and stewmac.com. I prefer CTS pots with brass shafts. Make sure you get the values, taper, and taper direction correct. Buying them from G&L's site may help ensure you get the proper type and they will respond to your questions. Same with the capacitors. Not only do you need correct values, but the technology (ceramic, mylar, paper in oil, etc.) is important as well as that will effect the tone. You want to replace them with capacitors of the same technology that G&L used, or be prepared to swap types around to determine what you like.

[Ampig]

I see the pot's on the G&L site. I understand that early Tributes like mine had USA electronics, so I should probably buy the USA pots listed?

[Craig]

I see the pot's on the G&L site. I understand that early Tributes like mine had USA electronics, so I should probably buy the USA pots listed?

Your Legacy is not a Tribute Series model. So, use the US model pots.
The US Legacy model came out in 1992 and had Seymour Duncan SSL Vintage (flats) in 1995 G&L built their own G&L Vintage Style Alnico V (CLF-100) pickups.
So your 1993 Legacy has the SD pickups.

Tribute Series first came out in 1998 or 1999 and were made in Japan for the Japanese market only. See this in our Gallery: Album: 1998 - 1999 Memorabilia.
You should see the two 1999 Tribute Series Catalogs there.

Please post some photos of your Legacy (front and back). And if you have not yet added it to our G&L Registry, please do.

Hope this helps.

[Ampig]

I see the pot's on the G&L site. I understand that early Tributes like mine had USA electronics, so I should probably buy the USA pots listed?

Your Legacy is not a Tribute Series model. So, use the US model pots.
The US Legacy model came out in 1992 and had Seymour Duncan SSL Vintage (flats) in 1995 G&L built their own G&L Vintage Style Alnico V (CLF-100) pickups.
So your 1993 Legacy has the SD pickups.

Tribute Series first came out in 1998 or 1999 and were made in Japan for the Japanese market only. See this in our Gallery: Album: 1998 - 1999 Memorabilia.
You should see the two 1999 Tribute Series Catalogs there.

Please post some photos of your Legacy (front and back). And if you have not yet added it to our G&L Registry, please do.


Hope this helps.

It's definitely a Legacy. A 2003. My original post saying 1993 was in error. Am I correct about the early models having USA electronics?

[Ampig]

Serial number is #03082730
Since Photobucket changed, I don't have a way to load photos

[Craig]

Serial number is #03082730
Since Photobucket changed, I don't have a way to load photos

Ok it is a Made in Korea Tribute Legacy. For details on the Tribute Series see: What is the new Tribute series which G&L announced in 2003?

See our Tutorial: Posting photos and look at using our Registered Users Gallery.

Please do add your Tribute Legacy to our G&L Registry.
Hope this helps.

[Ampig]

Thanks for the help. I just registered her.

[Tooslowhand]

You can use USA potentiometers if you wish. They are generally superior to the Chinese sourced parts, though I have not had an issue with the Asian pots in my Tribute guitar. If you want to use USA parts, you will have to slightly increase the size of the holes in the pickguard with a round file or similar tool.

[Ampig]

Thanks

[Ampig]

Okay. I ordered the Tribute pots from G&L and the caps on Amazon.
I already had a 220 pF capacitor. That should be okay in place of the 200pF cap..... Right?

[Ampig]

Finally got all the components together and rewired the guitar correctly. Guess what?
The emperor is dressed!!!!
All the controls work as they should. Especially the bass pot!

[Ampig]

I used the diagram on the Rothstein Guitars website. It kept me and my dyslexic brain from wiring the pots backwards. It's Mod #3 on this page
http://www.guitar-mod.com/strat.html