Would G&L Make Such A Mistake ?

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:45 pm

I recently saw another Jerry Cantrell Rampage up for sale...The seller billed it as a G&L USA Rampage - Jerry Cantrell Signature Guitar and in the description it said " This is NOT the tribute model ". It looked like a typical US Cantrell Signature Rampage, same color, same details...but one thing made me question it. The headstock... Looking at the headstock, it only had "G&L Rampage" on it and was missing the "Jerry Cantrell" signature...This guitar was supposedly made in 2013, yet my US Cantrell Signature Rampage made in 2017 includes Jerry's signature on the headstock. Would G&L make such an error in releasing a US Cantrell Signature Rampage WITHOUT Cantrell's signature on it ? That late in the game since it's initial release ? Or could this be a bogus deal ?

Post by **Craig** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:32 pm

Kenny821 wrote:I recently saw another Jerry Cantrell Rampage up for sale...The seller billed it as a G&L USA Rampage - Jerry Cantrell Signature Guitar and in the description it said " This is NOT the tribute model ". It looked like a typical US Cantrell Signature Rampage, same color, same details...but one thing made me question it. The headstock... Looking at the headstock, it only had "G&L Rampage" on it and was missing the "Jerry Cantrell" signature...This guitar was supposedly made in 2013, yet my US Cantrell Signature Rampage made in 2017 includes Jerry's signature on the headstock. Would G&L make such an error in releasing a US Cantrell Signature Rampage WITHOUT Cantrell's signature on it ? That late in the game since it's initial release ? Or could this be a bogus deal ?

I think it is not likely, but ... I would like to see the Serial Number (plate) on this guitar and a close up of the front of the headstock, looking for tell-tail signs of removal of decals.

Got photos or a link to the Ad?

BoringPostcards · Post by **BoringPostcards** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:22 am

I've heard of people who remove the signatures on sig models because they don't like how it looks, or they don't like the artist, just the guitar itself.
Could be one of those dudes owned it?

Danley · Post by **Danley** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:00 am

Perhaps pre-BBE

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:24 am

Craig wrote:
Kenny821 wrote:I recently saw another Jerry Cantrell Rampage up for sale...The seller billed it as a G&L USA Rampage - Jerry Cantrell Signature Guitar and in the description it said " This is NOT the tribute model ". It looked like a typical US Cantrell Signature Rampage, same color, same details...but one thing made me question it. The headstock... Looking at the headstock, it only had "G&L Rampage" on it and was missing the "Jerry Cantrell" signature...This guitar was supposedly made in 2013, yet my US Cantrell Signature Rampage made in 2017 includes Jerry's signature on the headstock. Would G&L make such an error in releasing a US Cantrell Signature Rampage WITHOUT Cantrell's signature on it ? That late in the game since it's initial release ? Or could this be a bogus deal ?
I think it is not likely, but ... I would like to see the Serial Number (plate) on this guitar and a close up of the front of the headstock, looking for tell-tail signs of removal of decals.

Got photos or a link to the Ad?

Sure Craig, here ya go: he hid the serial numbers on the build sheet ( I see Spencer signed it ) and COA , and even the neck plate is different with the G&L logo on it

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/cremorn ... 1180798645

DanDoulogos · Post by **DanDoulogos** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:40 am

The add does say...

This is a custom order from the G&L USA factory and includes the Certificate of Authenticity and custom order form details (pictured).

The original owner may have opted out of the signature...?

The guitar may still be identifiable via the Plek number - assuming they retain that info.

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:47 am

DanDoulogos wrote:The add does say...

This is a custom order from the G&L USA factory and includes the Certificate of Authenticity and custom order form details (pictured).
The original owner may have opted out of the signature...?

The guitar may still be identifiable via the Plek number - assuming they retain that info.

Could be...The plek number is on the build sheet ... just weird like something doesn't add up

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:08 am

DanDoulogos · Post by **DanDoulogos** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:56 am

The only thing I find weird is that they've scribbled out the SN.

That seems... shady.

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:11 am

DanDoulogos wrote:The only thing I find weird is that they've scribbled out the SN.

That seems... shady.

I can understand blocking the serial number, I wouldn't want mine posted freely for the "average joe" to see ... but anyone can find copies of a build sheet and COA , copy them and block out the numbers...I don't know, I just got a weird feeling about this particular guitar when I first saw the ad, I could be wrong in my assumptions....but for some reason I don't trust it. If you're selling an actual US Jerry Cantrell Signature Rampage and a true fan of Cantrell wants to buy it, it would seem to me that having his signature on the headstock would be part of the reason...you know ? I just get the feeling this schmuck is trying to pass this guitar off as an actual US Cantrell Signature Rampage when it's not. If it was me, I wouldn't buy it regardless of the inclusion of a build sheet or COA.

Danley · Post by **Danley** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:11 am

I understand not wanting someone else's name on the headstock.

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:37 pm

Danley wrote:I understand not wanting someone else's name on the headstock.

If you don't want Cantrell's name ( or any other person ) on your headstock , then just buy a regular old Rampage or whatever guitar it may be , don't buy a signature model guitar and deface it by removing the decals and logos from it.

yowhatsshakin · Post by **yowhatsshakin** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:53 pm

That guitar does gave the SD JB trembucker though, whereas the Tribby has a G&L bucker. And it has the proper Kahler 2320 bridge which has 5 tapped holes for the arm, one between every pair of string (the Kahler USA hybrid on the Tribby only has them between D-G, G-B, and B-E strings and hence is only a right-handed model). So in that sense it looks OK. Would have been nice to include the back of the headstock with the S/N brushed plate. I wouldn't care whether (s)he'd blot out the part after CLF, since it at least would proof it is a proper neck.

- Jos

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:22 pm

yowhatsshakin wrote:That guitar does gave the SD JB trembucker though, whereas the Tribby has a G&L bucker. And it has the proper Kahler 2320 bridge which has 5 tapped holes for the arm, one between every pair of string (the Kahler USA hybrid on the Tribby only has them between D-G, G-B, and B-E strings and hence is only a right-handed model). So in that sense it looks OK. Would have been nice to include the back of the headstock with the S/N brushed plate. I wouldn't care whether (s)he'd blot out the part after CLF, since it at least would proof it is a proper neck.

- Jos

The 2200 and 2300 Series have left or right arm holes between the Low E and A and the B and High E ...the other 3 holes are for spring, cam, and arm adjustment ( center hole adjusts the springs and the level of the cam up or down so it is flush with the top of the bridge plate while the first hole on either side of the center hole are for arm tightness or looseness - left side of center controls the left arm hole and right side of center controls the right side arm hole ) ...I've owned both Tribute and USA Cantrell Rampages. and No left handed models are made. Every one is Right handed.

JagInTheBag · Post by **JagInTheBag** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:35 am

It is very simple, as a serious buyer ask him to email you pictures of the documents with serial numbers and also a picture of the S/N on the guitar. If not, no deal. ~P

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:06 am

JagInTheBag wrote:It is very simple, as a serious buyer ask him to email you pictures of the documents with serial numbers and also a picture of the S/N on the guitar. If not, no deal. ~P

I agree with you Jag but, it's not only the S/N but the "missing signature" on the headstock as well...Now, I'm not saying that the only reason I bought my US Cantrell Signature Rampage was for the signature on the headstock ( truth be known I bought it because the Tribute Rampage I bought was crap ). But Cantrell's signature on the headstock was part of the whole package. I think any serious buyer who happens to be a fan of Jerry Cantrell would want his signature on the headstock if they were interested in buying his signature model guitar ( especially one that's listed as a USA Jerry Cantrell Signature Rampage and one that is "NOT the tribute model" ). The neck plate on the back is also different ( includes the G&L logo which is not present on my US Cantrell Signature Rampage ).

Post by **Craig** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:39 am

I had emailed Spencer this thread and he tracked it down:

Hi Craig,

I managed to track this down thanks to the date and Plek Number on the build sheet.

RAMPJCS-IVORY-EB CLF61071 10/31/13 0 FUL kenny 313401 1
│
│RAMPAGE JERRY CANTRELL SIG. IVORY EB
│REMOVE SIGNATURE FRM HDSTK DECAL
│DELETE ALLEN KEY MOUNT FRM HDSTK
│Created by manual serial# addition313401

There were two of these sold to our distributor Jack’s Music in Australia sent without the Signature on them. So this one is legit.
I can ask our distributor if he remembers why he wanted them without the signature.

Thanks,

Spencer

I did ask him if he could find out from distributor about wanting it without the signature.

Hope this helps.

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:37 am

Craig wrote:I had emailed Spencer this thread and he tracked it down:

Hi Craig,

I managed to track this down thanks to the date and Plek Number on the build sheet.

RAMPJCS-IVORY-EB CLF61071 10/31/13 0 FUL kenny 313401 1
│
│RAMPAGE JERRY CANTRELL SIG. IVORY EB
│REMOVE SIGNATURE FRM HDSTK DECAL
│DELETE ALLEN KEY MOUNT FRM HDSTK
│Created by manual serial# addition313401

There were two of these sold to our distributor Jack’s Music in Australia sent without the Signature on them. So this one is legit.
I can ask our distributor if he remembers why he wanted them without the signature.

Thanks,

Spencer
I did ask him if he could find out from distributor about wanting it without the signature.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Craig, appreciate the help \m/

DanDoulogos · Post by **DanDoulogos** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:14 am

Yay! A happy ending!

Danley · Post by **Danley** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:20 am

Options are limited if you don't want Jerry's signature; as shown above without going "custom" your options are to deal with a "signature" Rampage or a pre-BBE model. I wouldn't sand it off just to avoid it though; I'm fine with it being there, but hey, some people don't even want the model name on the headstock (and that's an option too.)

DanDoulogos · Post by **DanDoulogos** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:32 am

I totally would opt out of signature -and- model name.

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:19 pm

If I was going to opt out of anything in the form of a signature model guitar, I would look for one of the original Rampages from the 80's , but then have to mod it with a Floyd locking nut and probably countersink the Kahler on it anyway...I did notice the allen key mount on the rear of the headstock was opted out as well....I never understood the reasoning behind having the allen keys on the rear of the headstock. I wouldn't want them there either...but everyone has their preferences. This is the first Cantrell Rampage ( either Tribute or USA ) that I've seen without the signature on the headstock, I just thought it was a bit weird to see one like that and not have it be an 80's-era Rampage. Now we know

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:12 pm

WOW ! 1 of 2 made rare , I dig it

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:32 pm

Fumble fingers wrote:WOW ! 1 of 2 made rare , I dig it

Not really "rare" ... just ordered that way

Post by **Craig** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:41 pm

Kenny821 wrote:
Fumble fingers wrote:WOW ! 1 of 2 made rare , I dig it

Not really "rare" ... just ordered that way

Actually it is rare that G&L would allow this. It is NOT an option on Signature models. It will be interesting to hear why the distributor ordered those two that way and
if it got approved by Sales or Dave McLaren.

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:54 pm

Craig wrote:
Kenny821 wrote:
Fumble fingers wrote:WOW ! 1 of 2 made rare , I dig it

Not really "rare" ... just ordered that way
Actually it is rare that G&L would allow this. It is NOT an option on Signature models. It will be interesting to hear why the distributor ordered those two that way and
if it got approved by Sales or Dave McLaren.

In that respect yes, but to me..."rare" would be ordering a US Cantrell Rampage in Ivory ....and having it arrive at your house in original "Rampage Red" or "Hot Pink"...or any other color except what was ordered.

Post by **Craig** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:58 pm

Here's a reply from the distributor:

Hi Craig,

Here’s what our distributor remembers.

Thanks,

Spencer

From: Jacks Music | Daniel Jack [mailto:daniel@jacksmusic.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 1:31 PM
To: Spencer Brown
Subject: Re: FW: Questions from member about a 2013 Rampage Jerry Cantrell Signature model

Yes, I remember this. A customer of ours definitely ordered two or maybe three JC Rampage guitars to be built at the same time (from memory he used different tunings live) but made special request that the tool mount be omitted and the JC signature be trimmed from the decal. These mods were done by G&L during build, not aftermarket. I think original owner was indeed a fan of JC, but just didn’t want another artist’s signature on his own guitars. I don’t know why serials are whited out on the papers, but one explanation would be that original owner sold the guitars at different times and got his build papers mixed up?

I hope this helps!

Dan

So, I guess Sales did approve this.

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:01 pm

Craig wrote:Here's a reply from the distributor:

Hi Craig,

Here’s what our distributor remembers.

Thanks,

Spencer

From: Jacks Music | Daniel Jack [mailto:daniel@jacksmusic.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 1:31 PM
To: Spencer Brown
Subject: Re: FW: Questions from member about a 2013 Rampage Jerry Cantrell Signature model

Yes, I remember this. A customer of ours definitely ordered two or maybe three JC Rampage guitars to be built at the same time (from memory he used different tunings live) but made special request that the tool mount be omitted and the JC signature be trimmed from the decal. These mods were done by G&L during build, not aftermarket. I think original owner was indeed a fan of JC, but just didn’t want another artist’s signature on his own guitars. I don’t know why serials are whited out on the papers, but one explanation would be that original owner sold the guitars at different times and got his build papers mixed up?

I hope this helps!

Dan
So, I guess Sales did approve this.

Wow

Ken Baker · Post by **Ken Baker** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:23 pm

DanDoulogos wrote:The only thing I find weird is that they've scribbled out the SN.

People many times do that with private sales to protect themselves from others who would claim the serial number (and instrument) as their own and have it seized from the seller. It's an ugly precedent that has been set. The seller can share it with a potential buyer, if he/she is comfortable, after negotiations start.

Ken...

Kenny821 · Post by **Kenny821** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:31 pm

Ken Baker wrote:
DanDoulogos wrote:The only thing I find weird is that they've scribbled out the SN.
People many times do that with private sales to protect themselves from others who would claim the serial number (and instrument) as their own and have it seized from the seller. It's an ugly precedent that has been set. The seller can share it with a potential buyer, if he/she is comfortable, after negotiations start.

Ken...

I've seen many cases of build sheets and COA's posted online actually showing the serial numbers which I could never understand...I personally wouldn't post or want my guitar's information available "that freely" on the internet that just anyone could find and duplicate. But from a buyer/seller standpoint I can understand and agree with you.

ishan82 · Post by **ishan82** » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:12 pm

Hi guys,

I'm the actual owner of that guitar - and that's my foot in the pictures!!

I was recently told by a prospective buyer about this thread, so thought I should get in touch with G&L to find out more and then let you guys know where things stand.

I recently decided I love the guitar too much to part with it and took it down from sale - I actually bought it second hand from the guy who ordered 2 from Jacks Music.

Just so you know - I inked out the serial number as these can be sometimes used by others for insurance fraud purposes - and I was happy to supply these privately to anyone who asked - I don't see the need to make such information publicly available to non-interested buyers. Nothing untoward going on here - and never wanted to give that impression either!

@Craig - In the thread you advised that there were only 2 non-sig Cantrells sent to Australia via Jacks Music - but could you also advise on how many of these
non-sig versions were ever made throughout the World? I'm just trying to gauge the rarity of this custom order, if possible.

Cheers guys

Guitars by Leo (aka "GbL")

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