Bi cut neck glue joint splitting?

[MrSmokey]

Alrighty,
I am new here, but here it goes.
I recently picked up a 87 ASAT, The PO had it in the back of his box truck for a while, in the case, with a whole ton of other gear, fortunately this is in NH, so we don't get too much crazy heat. Due to the environment it was sitting in, it has some light rust on the hardware and some pretty wild crazing. As you will notice in the pics, there is a "split" of the bi-cut glue joint.
What i can see and feel with my fingernail is no more than 1.5 inch long, and honestly may just be hardly more than a finish crack. I gently set a razor on it and it did not seem to go beyond the finish. This is at the 5/6 fret.
Don't mistake the glue joint for more of a crack in the pictures, (it was difficult to get pictures that actually showed both of them at the same time, to be honest, as the light has to be right to show the joint). I should note that the picture looks far worse than it does in actuality. That said, i am not that worried about it, it seems stable, truss rod operates fine, neck is straight etc...

I saw this before i pulled the trigger on it, but it sounded and played fantastic, and the neck fit my hands great, i loved the wear too... ...it spoke to me, etc, so I gambled.

I have searched and found no reference to splitting on the guitars, and 2 instances of it happening on bases.
Anyone else run into this.






So, have you guys seen this sort of thing, would you be concerned?
Again, the pictures are more dramatic than in actuality, and the guitar seems stable, nothing moved from below freezing to being in the warm house, nothing moved with the truss rod fiddling, or with the neck off. based on the rest of the lacquer on this thing it honestly could just be skin deep, and mostly caused by the tension in that knot...

Thanks

[Elwood]

Congrats on your 'new' ASAT.
I would fill the separation with CA glue or some other clear that you can buff out to
a gloss. It'll probably stay that way if it's sealed. If not sweat or high humidity could
make it grow.

I bet she sounds sweet

[MrSmokey]

a few more, where you see crazing bisecting the glue joint, there is not a "crack".
[url=https://flic.kr/p/GYXBAw]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/GYXoWd]

for reference. From the owners manual.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/23KxU9e]

And for further reference for anyone searching for documentation on a 1987 ASAT

Heel
[url=https://flic.kr/p/22mVNuA]

Neck pocket
[url=https://flic.kr/p/254cpeG]

control plate, both pots are 250k.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/243axa1]

[MrSmokey]

Congrats on your 'new' ASAT.
I would fill the separation with CA glue or some other clear that you can buff out to
a gloss. It'll probably stay that way if it's sealed. If not sweat or high humidity could
make it grow.

I bet she sounds sweet

Thankyou.
I like this plan, i was thinking the regular tightbond II i have around or just touching up with more lacquer. Why specifically the CA stuff?

Yes this thing sounds great!

[Elwood]

The CA is quick,clear, and can be buffed out glossy
after it's smoothed with 600 or higher grit.
Stew Mac has a tutorial vid for filling chips with CA if I remember right.

Lacquer would work too, though it will be soft for a while and would take (at least) a few coats
to build it up to level.

cheers

[MrSmokey]

The CA is quick,clear, and can be buffed out glossy
after it's smoothed with 600 or higher grit.
Stew Mac has a tutorial vid for filling chips with CA if I remember right.

Lacquer would work too, though it will be soft for a while and would take (at least) a few coats
to build it up to level.

cheers

Thankyou!
Excellent I'll look for the tutorial, have you used it with lacquer with it not reacting etc?
I believe you are correct, it will take a bit to build the lacquer up, but it should be able to flow/melt in really nicely, bonding with the existing stuff, It has been a while since i have done this sort of thing (i used to do antique automotive paint work). I'll pick it out a bit with a "dental tool", and sand it to make sure it is clean. CA does sound like a nice easy option though.

I wonder if it will be obvious with the clear of the CA, part of why i was thinking of the regular tightbond was its drys with a slight tint (i also have that on hand), the neck is tinted a bit to a vintage amber color. I am looking at these too.
http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Su ... arker.html
I need to do a stewmac order anyhow.

Has anybody else had cracking at the neck glue joint?

[john o]

hey MrSmokey, nice find on the ASAT there.
the older ones do have all kinds of personality and great tone.
the black krinkle hardware is cool as well. enjoy, and welcome to the 'hood!

[MrSmokey]

Alright, so this is interesting.
I was second guessing what i thought looked, felt, and acted was lacquer after reading lots of posts about how G&L were finished, evidently in poly after 1985... and some of the early stuff had checking issues. I found that info on this forum. http://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=6273

But it is indeed lacquer, there were two spots on the neck under the headstock where it evidently reacted to the fork of a guitar stand, and "melted" where it had touched it. I blended those in beautifully with lacquer thinner, they are no longer evident. I thought running thinner into the crack with a tiny brush and blending it, after cleaning the spot with a "dental scraper", but i may wait and get one of those pens from stew mac.

The body is also finished in lacquer, i tested under the control plate.

Stated here, this 1986 sunburst is poly, http://www.ggjaguar.com/86asat.htm
this 1987 in black is poly, http://www.ggjaguar.com/87asat.htm
my 87 has the gold sparkle g&l logo with the trademark symbol like that 87, but it also has the one ply pic guard like that 86...

What finish have you guys found yours to have, if around this time frame?

i'll put pictures up when i finish...

Has anyone ever had the necks split at the bi-cut joint?

[glvourot]

Beautiful guitar you have there, definitely the best era for cool looking Asat's. I have a blonde 86 and it is a poly finish. I hope you get that neck fixed up to your liking.

[blargfromouterspace]

There's a similar split on my 83 SC1, but at the nut/fingerboard side of the neck rather than the back middle as on yours. A luthier I took it to for a setup because it never played right said it was likely caused by the truss rod being turned to the point that its split the wood.

Does it play okay or is it really awkward? Could be that it once had a twisted neck that may have been repaired but not refinished?

[MrSmokey]

Beautiful guitar you have there, definitely the best era for cool looking Asat's. I have a blonde 86 and it is a poly finish. I hope you get that neck fixed up to your liking.

Thanks, i can put up more pics, but i should probably put them in a more appropriate plate. Interesting that yours is poly. I think the neck will be fine, i really just was wondering if this was common, and was afraid if it was more than skin deep, which i don't think it is. Keeping it in a stable environment should help it out.

[MrSmokey]

There's a similar split on my 83 SC1, but at the nut/fingerboard side of the neck rather than the back middle as on yours. A luthier I took it to for a setup because it never played right said it was likely caused by the truss rod being turned to the point that its split the wood.

Does it play okay or is it really awkward? Could be that it once had a twisted neck that may have been repaired but not refinished?

Interesting, thanks for posting. Sorry to hear that. Since it is on the other side (it is clampable) i wonder if you could extremely carefully (with a high ear) tighten the rod to open it, clean it out, then glue, back all the way off the rod, and clamp it... You could block out the fret board at that point and re finish, re fret... Without seeing it, that is what i would do if it were mine... or take it to someone i had confidence in. I would test if first cleaning it out before test clamping to see if you could even get it shut that way, with the rod backed off. How big is it, maybe it even needs a wedge to not stress the back of the joint at this point, but hopefully just wood glue, or wood clue with hardwood sawdust. You might need to "squeegee" and wipe the glue in moving along the length of the crack...

Like i said in my first post it plays and feels great. Take all this ( and what i said above) with a grain of salt, I am not a luthier, just a mechanic that happens to play and have had several guitars along the way that needed work....

...It for the most part plays excellent.
From what i can tell, it's faults at the moment lie at the plastic nut that has dried out and has gaps on the side (i guess it shrunk at the sides, not sure, it is just a plain plastic nut), i can slip a shim under it at the sides, and it rocks if you push it. There is some extremely slight sitar effect that i isolated to the bridge with my ear.
It only frets out a bit when you crawl up onto the tongue, but they are not terrible, this has been common on a lot of guitars i have had and easily fixed. These look to need a little bit of a fret hammer, and a light dressing. Since it sat for a long time and had very tarnished frets, going gently over it with a block and high grit showed where things need to go, its not bad. I'll get to it soon.

The truss rod on mine works as it should, neck is straight, no weirdness. It only starts to fret out up on the tongue. When i got it, the truss rod was not very tight. I think mine had the opposite issue of yours (in regards to tension), it sat with full string tension in the back of a box truck for years in a highly variable climate. I think your issues do sound as though it could have been over tightened, as that would push the fingerboard side out...
Check out the cut away picture from the owners manual.

But, yea, mine seems stable, i hope it is. I agree with what Elwood said about getting it sealed to help keep it stable. That will also show me if it moves, as the finish will crack again... I'll post a pic when i take the finish on that "crack"/crack down to the wood.
I highly doubt it has ever been repaired based on the way it the finish is, that glue joint was hard to get on camera.

[MrSmokey]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/25c7eVo]

Well i shaved it down with the wood carving knife i had with the most curve to it, if the joint is actually cracked it is tiny, i cannot feel or see it, i'll try to get a better pic again later, today is busy.
It is going to take a bunch of coats of lacquer to get proper build up back on that spot, but it should blend, sand and buff out nice in the end... i guess i'll find out if it is actually split, when it cracks again.