LR Wednesday September 4, 2013 - Alnico

Howdy folks,

Once again thanks for chiming in yesterday. Didn't have a lot of time to react but alas. And so far this morning, I have been running around to and now it's almost time to go to work again. Fortunately, as an except employee nobody is checking the clock. But on to the next guitar. Or make that two. Although first things first, the prediction for lunch.

Lunch
Mama's Mexican Kitchen, one of the few Mexican restaurants I know where they actually squeeze fresh lime juice to make their (jalapeño) margaritas.

One of the other things with the guitar shown yesterday was that the case reeked of cigarette smoke. With the vast majority of my guitars bought used, it is somewhat amazing it took so long to run into this problem! I tried baking soda, airing/baking it in the summer heat but nothing really seems to help and the stink only disappears very slowly.

Non-G&L question
Any tips on what a good approach is to get rid of the smell?

One of the biggest surprises to me are the great sonic characteristics of G&L's Alnico Tele-pickup. The first guitar I got with these pups was the ASAT Classic Alnico prototype. So I was very excited when G&L announced the release a Classic 'S' Alnico and a Solamente Alnico at the Winter NAMM this year. This was the very ASAT Classic 'S' Alnico shown at that show:


Yesterday I wrote I was surprised to find nothing in the bath tub rout of the 2012 Special Collection ASAT Classic 'S'. That in part because every other bath tub rout I've inspected displays initials, stickers, and/or what-not. This one is no exception:

And again, I really like the pickups. They are more in line with what one would expect for a Tele-model. And combined with the CLF-100 in the middle, as used on the Legacy and the sadly no longer available George Fullerton Signature models, you have some delectable guitar tones at your finger tips. A great, great guitar I have been pulling out of its case time and time again.

The same can be said for the ASAT Classic Solamente Alnico I recently acquired and one of the first built:


This Esquire-esque model is the Alnico neck pup in its purest form. It is interesting to compare this model with my ASAT '50 which uses an Tele-style MFD pup and different electronics. The MFD has a broader resonance curve to my ears with more lows and top end in a very even distribution. The Alnico has a narrower curve biased toward the higher end of the sonic spectrum but with the 'ice-pick' tamed. So even with no tone control the pickup still sounds beautiful with a lot of warmed up highs for lack of a better term. The middle control setting, like for the ASAT '50, engages the tone control and you can dial in a lot of gorgeous tones. The main difference between the two guitars is what happens in the neck setting. Whereas the ASAT '50 basically sounds like the middle position with the tone turned down to zero, i.e. a very dark sound with barely any highs, the Solamente Alnico sounds more like the halfway point. Personally I like the new implementation better which makes me curious what the ASAT Classic Solamente sounds like. Both the neck heel as well as the neck pocket show nothing: no date, no sticker, no pen marking! Only thing I can find is on the back of the pick guard

Only thing is, I have no clue what it means. It not part of a S/N because CLF60345 happens to be a registered L-2000 Spalted Alder prototype bass!

Does this all mean I no longer like my MFD Tele-pups? No way! The difference in sound is noticeable. I still think the MFD is more powerful and has a broader spectrum. It is more that given my previous experience with Fender Telecasters I had not expected that such an improvement would be possible. Maybe people like louis who swap out pups all the time will make me out for an amateur since they already have explored the landscape of non-OEM Tele-pups by the legion of pickup makers. I gladly roll with that punch. It takes some people longer to notice.

Depending on your view point I hope you will be able to answer at least one part.
G&L question

1. What is good about G&L pickups? What is/are your favorite(s)? Is there one you'd like to have reissued?
2. Why are you swapping pups? What is bad?

Talk to you later!

- Jos

the asat classic mfd's squeal. it's a common problem. the tone is good though. the g&l alnicos (both legacy and asat) are meh. i have dozens of pups that are better than those. i prefer the mfd's. the seth lover is a horrible choice for the bluesboy, does not go with the mfd, but once replaced, the guitar works great. i like the big mfd's the most, and i like the f100 humbuckers. at least the one that is on the return edition. i guess all this explains why i swap pups.

Dealing with cigarette smoke: We are currently playing at a cigar bar on a fairly regular basis and the cigar smoke is the worst.

I rec. the baking soda spread throughout the interior several times and then vacuum out the baking soda after 48 hours.
Then shampoo the interior of the case if you have to.
You basically have to leave the case open for a long time to circulate enough air past it to take away the smell.

The important thing to help avoid this is to keep your guitar case closed when playing in a smoky environment!
I used to take a large trash bag and store my overcoat and bass bag inside of it when playing at the smoking clubs. That does work but the worst is to leave your case open when smokers are present. Some guitar owners smoke a lot so that's what you get.

I had lunch with a past co-worker and it was fun. This was on the way to pick up my Savannah Asat Bass which came in yesterday.

Jos, that bound Classic S is very sweet. I have wondered what the difference between this and the earlier versions regarding the pickup winding is. It sounds as though there isn't a big noticeable difference.


Any tips on what a good approach is to get rid of the smell?

I have a carpet/upholstery cleaner which I have already used on amp grill cloths and it works very well. I would be tempted to use a vacuum shampooer on it, testing a small area first. Airing out will not totally remove as there is a smoke film deposited on the fabric. If it were a light color fabric, it would be discolored from the smoke. It is bad stuff and difficult to remove but I thank a good shampoo would remove it. Make sure you dry it well afterward as quickly as possible such as direct sunlight.


G&L question
What is good about G&L pickups? What is/are your favorite(s)? Is there one you'd like to have reissued?
Why are you swapping pups? What is bad?


G&L pickups are some of the best. I especially like the new Alnico's. They do have the Fender vintage sound but much richer and sweeter. I also like the Z-Coils. I agree with Louis on the F-100 returns. They are great. I have not personally changed any pickups but bought an almost new Legacy that had Kinman Blues installed. I do like them. They are very quiet. While picking up my bass today a fellow was talking about pickups as he can never get the perfect sound. He recently purchased a new Commanche and commented on how nice the Z's were after he had them dialed in. He thought they were very sensitive to height adjustment. -- Darwin

Last edited by darwinohm on Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jos, baking the case in the summer heat without shampooing it first can make it harder to remove. have you tired febreze? i hate the smell of smoke. if i have to play at a club where they allow smoking, i call the cops on them first, they get fined, then it's safe to go. of course, if they knew that the 700 dollar fine (and 200 dollar ticket to the individual patrons smoking) was because of me, they might be pissed.

The MFD pickups in my 1998 ASAT Classic are excellent, especially the neck. Wouldn't change a thing. So those are my favorites. I have a Signature S500, and the in between positions sound great, but the p/u's individually, not so great. Strange. I've been criticized on this forum before for talking pickup swaps, but let's face it, some MFD's and other pickups they choose (Gotoh Blades and Seymour Duncan HB's) aren't so great.

X 2 on the upholstry cleaner , you gotta clean off the nicotine before the smell will ever disappear ..... its part of the "Used Car Game" getting out the cigarette smell in used cars , get it clean then use either fabreeze or stick some drier sheets in the compartment



G & L pu's .... I like them , although I'm a rookie compared to you guy's .... ASAT Classic , Legacy , SC 2 , Comanche , S 500 and Cavalier at my disposal , my favorite sound is probably my ASAT Classic MFD and Legacy Anico ..... I like them all and they all have there purpose but the Classic and Legacy is probably my pick most of the time but not all the time ......

I don't mind the smell of smoke. I had an old car a few years ago that I used to smoke in constantly and the mix of the vinyl seats, motor oil and cigarettes just felt right. Darwins suggestion of carpet shampoo is the way to go, that nicotine yellow that you probably can't see on the case is the most stubborn stuff in the world to get rid of.

I love that Solamente. Gotta get one of them someday. I really think that they should leave the neck route off, and offer these with no pick-guard - I can't tell from the photos, but is there a hole for wires to be run from the neck pickup to the control plate?

Of all the G&L pickups I've tried, the P90s in the Korina Jr are my favourite, followed by the large MFDs in the SC2. I love the Seth Lover in the Bluesboy. From what I can tell, the LB100 pickup is pretty damn good, but I haven't tried anything else nor any other basses for comparison. Like Louis says, the small MFD in the ASAT Classics are prone to squealing, especially in the bridge position, and this has been the case on the three I own, so I've swapped them all out.

I can't share an opinion of any current G&L pickups, but here are my thoughts on the MFDs of yesteryear:

- The Nighthawk/Skyhawk pups are wonderful for getting classic Strat-like chime and shimmer. I would give them a slight edge in that department over the earlier square-ended S-500 pups, although my experience has only been with maple 'Hawks and a 'hog S-500. I don't know how strongly the body woods factored into those sounds.

- The single coil MFDs used in the first style SBs and Lynx are amazing. They are very strong in the upper mids - from around the 7th fret up to the 12th. There is plenty of sound above and below that range, but they really punch through anything if you stick around that sweet spot.

- The MFD humbuckers from the El Toro and Interceptor Bass cover an incredible amount of ground. To my ears they have more low end than the early SB/Lynx pups, with a ton of mids in the mix. IME the treble response is just about perfect for a full bass tone without a lot of ringing.

Ken

That is one tasty looking solamente

What I like best about the MFD pickups is the very nature of them is unique, I do not see many pickups with the same ceramic and polepiece design. and of course the wider frequency range that I very much enjoy.

That is one tasty looking solamente

What I like best about the MFD pickups is the very nature of them is unique, I do not see many pickups with the same ceramic and polepiece design. and of course the wider frequency range that I very much enjoy.

most cheapo single coils and humbuckers have ceramic + polepiece. the design is not so unique, but results are.

If that Mama's is down in Belltown on 2nd or 3rd...it's a good one. I love their chili verde.

Not much you can do about the case smell other than what has been offered. Time helps.

I like all of the G&L pickups. It depends on the song as to which type of guitar I will use...and the pickups.

I like ALL the G&Lpickups. I think the Legacy's alnicos are as good as anything out there marketed as a vintage pickup. The narrow MFDs and Z-coils are different than anything on the market. And there are a lot of dual-coil rails on the market, but none sound like the Gotohs.

You can spend a truckload of cash on pickups and not find anything better. I do have one Legacy loaded with Duncan Texas Hot Antiquitys and they have a thicker tone than the factory pickups. Better? No, just different, and a very usable tone, but on certain things I still like the G&Ls. I LOVE the Seths in my Les Pauls, and I like them in the Bluesboy too.

Some people buy into all the hype and constantly search for the best. I look for VALUE. I KNOW I sound good.

Sometimes you just have to forget about all the nuance of the gear and just PLAY.

Truth.

Bill

Thanks for all the tips and hints folks. I'll try the shampoo and see what comes of it.
And yes Bill, it is that Mama's Mexican. I usually have their Chile Verde Tostada and it is very good and just the right amount.

- Jos

Jos, Tim, love the education this week guys! Keep it up!

That is one tasty looking solamente

What I like best about the MFD pickups is the very nature of them is unique, I do not see many pickups with the same ceramic and polepiece design. and of course the wider frequency range that I very much enjoy.

most cheapo single coils and humbuckers have ceramic + polepiece. the design is not so unique, but results are.

But not manufactured the same or to the same tolerances etc... etc...

If Leo designed it from the ground up and they are manufactured to the high level of tolerances and quality that G&L does.... and can sound so much better than cheapo Single coils and humbuckers...

As well as their wide frequency range... does that not make them even a little bit unique or different?

1) Favorite G&L Pickup

For me - the large MFD is by far my favorite (aka Soapbar or P-90 MFD by some). I've been fortunate to have heard this pickup in a number of variations. Over wound, under wound, etc. And I still prefer the original 80's windings coming in around 6.5K on the neck, 7.25-7.3K on the bridge. When working with Gabe Dellevigne on the Trinity, this was the pickup we used and matched with Maple as I still like that combination. But when I think of the "G&L TONE" -- I think of the large MFD.

2) Bluesboy - Seth

Sound is subjective and I always respect that. Louis comment was the Seth Lover isn't a good choice (when combined with MFD at the bridge). I would disagree and it's interesting to note that the vast majority of reviews point to their favorite position on the selector switch to be middle where the Seth and the MFD are combined. HOWEVER, Louis opinion is valid as he doesn't like it. I have a valid opinion too as I do like it. There was a very specific sound I was going for, and it accomplishes the goal I had. Doesn't mean you can't switch out to something you prefer. As a side note, I was once asked why I always chose ASAT body designs? The answer is they lend themselves to easy modification, had a set amount of controls, and really are a lot more versatile than some realize from a design and modifying standpoint.

3) Bridge MFD squeal

This has come up before, and I've always had real concern about it. In speaking with Mr. Fullerton - they had an extensive issue on the Telecaster, they used Bees Wax to pot the pickups and they had to be really soaked into it. Another designer I spoke with (who is more of an engineering guy than a musician) said it was related to the resonant point of the classic ashtray bridge we're all familiar with which causes the problem. I've seen solutions from re-pot the pickup, to add a small backing to the ashtray bridge to change the resonant frequency. Now it here's where it gets REAL interesting and sorta backs up the engineer's theory. I used to be a Tom Anderson dealer. Anderson guitars are well respected and in speaking with them, they had the same issue. The solution? Re-design the ashtray bridge (aka get rid of it!). Here's a photo of one of their guitars. As you can see the bridge is no longer in contact with the pickup. I personally don't like the look, but it eliminated 100% the issue for them. So despite cosmetics being subjective, this could be an alternative consideration in future.

In the various ASAT Classic's and Bluesboy's that I've personally owned, I've never experienced this issue on any of my guitars. I did have two or three customers over all the years of selling G&L's come back with this issue. One we were able to fix via re-potting the pickup. In the other we switched out the pickup (which didn't solve it) and added a backing to the ashtray bridge and that resolved the issue. I can't remember the third as my brain is old. But I've seen several posts over the years, so I would really look at this to find a resolution across the board.



Regards,

Tim

tim, the middle position sounded fine on the bluesboy with the seth. it was the seth by itself compared to the mfd by itself. replacing the seth with a p90 gave a middle position just as good, but hum cancelling now, and a much more balanced bridge to neck sound. with the seth, when the bridge mfd was dialed in, the middle position was ok, and the seth by itself was unusably muddy. especially on the wound strings. i think a large mfd, or a f100 return edition mfd humbucker would work as well, much better than the seth. btw, i have a seth lover for sale

I use a product called with Ozium in the name. My wife brought some home from her work (medical field) and it just plain neutralizes odors. I found it also at of all places an aftermarket car parts place (Car Quest I think) in the aisle with all the air fresheners. A blue spray can labeled "ozium". I always leave the case sit for days afterward then vaccum it thouroughly, to make sure the guitar's finish doesn't come in contact with anything that hasn't evaporated yet.

Febreze is sticky, and the case material will get stiff (lesson learned).

A friend uses bags of rock from the hardware store to take out smells, I've yet to search it out. Sounds easier than a spray.

A friend uses bags of rock from the hardware store to take out smells, I've yet to search it out. Sounds easier than a spray.

You could probably do it even better with a fine mesh bag filled with crushed charcoal (I would avoid any that had starter in it). Another bag with silica gel (like the desiccant packs) would be likely to adsorb whatever the charcoal doesn't.

Ken