Lunch Report -- Monday, July 15, 2013

Monday --

Hello,
My name is Pat. I have been on this board for quite awhile but I did stray a few years ago… I went over to www.thegearpage.net and some other forums too and I only check in from time to time here. I don't know why I stopped checking this board out as much. This board is the best to get real helpful information without craziness.

Anyway, I am married and I have a 9month old daughter. I work on computers for a living. Desktop, hardware, major projects where they think they need someone that pretends to know computers in the building… I don't know Im not really a programer/networking guy or anything special but we do a lot… However, my family and my daughter are really my whole life. Watching her grow and learn has been the most amazing experience of my life.

I play in a band with my dad and some dudes he met playing. Its kind of a weird gospel band… we play gospel of course but, the leader finds stuff that has a bunch of interesting changes and I say we're a beatles influenced gospel band haha… I'm 27 and three of them are in their late 50s/early 60s and two are in their 70s so they all grew up with that stuff and you can tell. It's a wild experience haha…

Lunch today will be Moe's Monday at Southwest Moe's. They are a lot like Chipotle. Kinda a mexican subway. Here's their website -- http://www.moes.com/. I usually get a burrito bowl. I keep it simple, chicken, rice, black beans, pico/mild salsa, cheese, lettuce, some fresh jalapeños and thats about it. Its the stuff for $5 bucks. Can't do that anywhere anymore...

So, enough about me…

Here's my G&L topic and its probably been covered a million times but here it is: What's your favorite G&L neck?

Mine is the #3 maple board. For my 25th Bday my wife said I could get a guitar so I sat down with 4 USA G&Ls of different flavors. When I played the #3 maple board on a Legacy it was like an awakening. I've had bigger necked guitars in the past but this neck is perfect for me. If you haven't found that neck or spacing or whatever that makes you just feel completely comfortable, I say sit down with a ton of guitars and get to work! It's been the only guitar I've held on to through the buying selling trading disease I have.

Which leads me to my non-G&L topic: Which other guitar maker's neck do you like best? Mine is PRS' Wide Fat or well I thought that's what it was called. Anyway, I had a Custom 22 awhile ago and that neck was awesome. I am not a huge PRS fan though and it ended up sold but if I could get that neck on a different guitar that would be great haha… Gadow also has a nice not quite baseball bat neck with excellent feel and spacing for everything else. I had a set neck classic from him that was great too. Again, though I just don't keep LP types around.


Hey, talk to you all tomorrow.
- Pat

Hey Pat.
I'm a staunch atheist who finds a lot of christian music highly offensive, but I don't mind some of the older gospel music - Mahalia Jackson, Staples Singers, Rance Allen - when the performance seems to obscure the lyrics. I also play in a band with a bunch of older guys, I'm 31, they're 50+. It can be a struggle at times, but the gigs have paid well enough this last year to fund 3 new G&Ls so it's not too bad.
My fave G&L neck is the #1. I was a Gibson player for about 10 years before I got my first G&L, and the 12" fretboard on that not-too-big, not-too-small neck felt just right and still does. Best neck I've ever felt was on a Trussart Steelcaster, a very nice round back and a $6000 price tag

Hi Pat and welcome back

I have a 9month old daughter ...I'm 27

My 9 month old daughter turns 27yo in a couple of weeks .... make the most of the great times ahead of you because they will be memories before you know it!

What's your favorite G&L neck? G&L are pretty rare around these parts so haven't tried to many of the newer necks and the older ones didn't have the consistency for me to have a definitive view. I prefer flatter boards so of the newer more consistent variety I'd probably incline to a 1a or 1c.

Which other guitar maker's neck do you like best? I'd probably draw some arguments here but I've never played a Maton neck that I couldn't get on with.

... and Phooey. Interesting week last week, just been too busy with financial year end to participate.

cheers, Robbie

another atheist here, but i like some gospel stuff too. i have played some gigs that were all gospel and r&b, and while i don't know a single song, it was pretty easy stuff to pick up on the fly. i do find the worship music offensive, but not for the lyrics, rather for the absolute horrible musicianship most worship bands display. it seems people play in worship bands because god didn't bless them with any talent.

i like the #1 neck and the #3, and i have not played a #4. i would be curious. simply impossible to find. i like the neck on the srv strat, it's an asymmetrical oval shape. i also like the scott lentz and chris clem necks. i am not crazy about the newer fender necks, a little flimsy feeling.

Love gospel music and spirituals!

My fave G&L neck is the #1. I have several guitars from the mid-90s that all have the same profile, and they are perfect. I have a couple from earlier, still BBE, that are the stupid slim version. A couple of the newer ones have a slightly fuller profile but still feel great. And I have one that came from the planet Zorgon--it is such a radically different profile than any of my other guitars. My least favorite, this one takes a few minutes to get used to every time I pick it up.

I also play Gibsons and Ibanez guitars. The Gibson 1960, slim taper is a favorite but they vary from guitar to guitar. All of my Ibanez have this profile. I have '58 and '59 Reissue Les Pauls. Both have very large necks. My favorite though is the necks on my two Guitar Center 1960 Tobaccoburst VOS Pauls from the Gibson Custom Shop. These are Baby Bear necks...they feel just right. Purrrfect!

As to fingerboards, I have rosewood, ebony and maple...but no real preference. All good. It mostly comes down to the visuals.

Bill

Greets padavis & great to see another freshman grab the mic'
You've probably already heard of Phil keaggy bud,but if you haven't I thoroughly recommend you check him out speaking of Beatles inspired gospel music.he's one of the greatest singer/songwriter/guitarists I've ever heard.in particular town to town,phlip side & play thru me.
Pertaining to theology it depends on the company I'm in really.for example to my "atheist" brothers in arms blarg & Louis..could you provide me proof absolute that there is no god? or at the very least concede that there could possibly be something at work in our universe(and beyond) that is beyond all our comprehensions that supersede physical/natural law?
Hence due to some of the intellects assembled here on this board I would consider myself agnostic
As far as G & L boards go I think my go too deck would be a slim C ebony.
Regarding builders I've been checking out Bernie rico jr of late(his family were the genesis of BC rich etc).that dude is building some serious planks
Cheers..

blackie, there is no evidence there is. could you provide evidence that there is no invisible, weightless pink unicorn sitting on you shoulder? i think you have a little confusion with terminology. this is not a religious discussion, it's just clarifying terminology. atheism refers to belief, agnosticism to knowledge. atheists do not assert there is no god, just lack belief in one for lack of evidence. an anti-theist asserts no god. i am an agnostic atheist, as i lack belief in a god, and i am an agnostic as i don't claim to know. atheism is an answer to a single question "do you believe in god?" if the answer is yes you are a theist, any other answer (including i don't know, because that does not refer to belief, rather to knowledge) and you are an atheist. there is really no middle ground. theists assert god, the burden of proof falls on them. atheism is the default position, as is the lack of belief being the default position regarding anything that was asserted without sufficient evidence justifying belief.

blackie, there is no evidence there is. could you provide evidence that there is no invisible, weightless pink unicorn sitting on you shoulder? i think you have a little confusion with terminology. this is not a religious discussion, it's just clarifying terminology. atheism refers to belief, agnosticism to knowledge. atheists do not assert there is no god, just lack belief in one for lack of evidence. an anti-theist asserts no god. i am an agnostic atheist, as i lack belief in a god, and i am an agnostic as i don't claim to know. atheism is an answer to a single question "do you believe in god?" if the answer is yes you are a theist, any other answer (including i don't know, because that does not refer to belief, rather to knowledge) and you are an atheist. there is really no middle ground. theists assert god, the burden of proof falls on them. atheism is the default position, as is the lack of belief being the default position regarding anything that was asserted without sufficient evidence justifying belief.

We agree to disagree then bud.athiesm & agnosticism are not always mutually exclusive of which you've conceded here,& atheism by definition DO deny the presence of a supreme being(look it up).no confusion in my terminology big fella..
Anyway Bernie Rico jr is out your way Louis isn't he mate? Have you checked out any of his builds?

We agree to disagree then bud.athiesm & agnosticism are not always mutually exclusive of which you've conceded here,& atheism by definition DO deny the presence of a supreme being(look it up).no confusion in my terminology big fella..
Anyway Bernie Rico jr is out your way Louis isn't he mate? Have you checked out any of his builds?

Nice key change Mr. Page !

blackie, there is no evidence there is. could you provide evidence that there is no invisible, weightless pink unicorn sitting on you shoulder? i think you have a little confusion with terminology. this is not a religious discussion, it's just clarifying terminology. atheism refers to belief, agnosticism to knowledge. atheists do not assert there is no god, just lack belief in one for lack of evidence. an anti-theist asserts no god. i am an agnostic atheist, as i lack belief in a god, and i am an agnostic as i don't claim to know. atheism is an answer to a single question "do you believe in god?" if the answer is yes you are a theist, any other answer (including i don't know, because that does not refer to belief, rather to knowledge) and you are an atheist. there is really no middle ground. theists assert god, the burden of proof falls on them. atheism is the default position, as is the lack of belief being the default position regarding anything that was asserted without sufficient evidence justifying belief.

We agree to disagree then bud.athiesm & agnosticism are not always mutually exclusive of which you've conceded here,& atheism by definition DO deny the presence of a supreme being(look it up).no confusion in my terminology big fella..
Anyway Bernie Rico jr is out your way Louis isn't he mate? Have you checked out any of his builds?

that is a definition promoted by theists, not atheists. i have looked it up. here you go.

1. Atheist

1.) A person who lacks belief in a god or gods.


another one, from merriam webster

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity.

and one more.

"There is, unfortunately, some disagreement about the definition of atheism. It is interesting to note that most of that disagreement comes from theists - atheists themselves tend to agree on what atheism means. Christians in particular dispute the definition used by atheists and insist that atheism means something very different.

The broader, and more common, understanding of atheism among atheists is quite simply "not believing in any gods." No claims or denials are made - an atheist is just a person who does not happen to be a theist. Most good, complete dictionaries readily support this."

as you can see, there is a confusion on your part, and atheism does not by definition assert that there is no god. an agnostic can be a theist or an atheist, depending on what their stance on belief is, as agnostic only refers to knowledge (or there lack of). look it up.


i have never heard of bernie rico jr. looked him up, some crazy looking guitars, but i don't know where he is located.

Hi Pat, welcome back to Planet G&L.

It sounds like you're having a blast in your gospel band, and having fun is what it's all about.

Favourite G&L Neck: I've never had the luxury of trying out different G&L necks in a store. I'm pretty sure all four of my G&L's have #1 necks, though they all feel distinctly different. I can get on with all of them, but my '95 S-500 has the most radically different profile - kinda Gibson thick front to back, but still a standard nut width. I know it might be heresy, but I like the profile and fret board radius (9") of my Tributes just as much as the US models.

Favourite non-G&L necks: I have a Washburn J9 jazz guitar with a wonderful soft V neck and ebony board that is always a pleasure to play. I've liked nearly every recent Fender neck that I've picked up too. My most recent purchase, a Fender MIM special release Telecaster, has a neck that is baseball bat thick at the nut end, but tapers as you move up the fretboard to be fairly slender at the 12th fret. A great idea IMO.

I'm a non-atheist, but it doesn't stop me respecting an atheist's point of view, or disliking most religious music.

We agree to disagree then bud.athiesm & agnosticism are not always mutually exclusive of which you've conceded here,& atheism by definition DO deny the presence of a supreme being(look it up).no confusion in my terminology big fella..
Anyway Bernie Rico jr is out your way Louis isn't he mate? Have you checked out any of his builds?

Nice key change Mr. Page !

Mate I'm trying here!

1. Atheist

1.) A person who lacks belief in a god or gods.


another one, from merriam webster

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity.

and one more.

"There is, unfortunately, some disagreement about the definition of atheism. It is interesting to note that most of that disagreement comes from theists - atheists themselves tend to agree on what atheism means. Christians in particular dispute the definition used by atheists and insist that atheism means something very different.

The broader, and more common, understanding of atheism among atheists is quite simply "not believing in any gods." No claims or denials are made - an atheist is just a person who does not happen to be a theist. Most good, complete dictionaries readily support this."

as you can see, there is a confusion on your part, and atheism does not by definition assert that there is no god. an agnostic can be a theist or an atheist, depending on what their stance on belief is, as agnostic only refers to knowledge (or there lack of). look it up.


i have never heard of bernie rico jr. looked him up, some crazy looking guitars, but i don't know where he is located.

Big fella again you're proving my point.what part of "not believing in any gods" are you having problems with bud? lol youre melding agnosticism into atheism again,which is where i stand.and where you now stand after my initial post
If I was to speak popularly to the man on the street I would say I was an atheist,yet if I was in the company of a more intellectual or philosophical crowd like here I would say I was agnostic.can you tell me what caused the Big Bang?the golden ratio? are you familiar with the work of guys like penrose,carbon chemistry etc etc..
Sooner or later you will not have a rational or logical explanation & arrogance aside will have no choice but concede at the possibility albeit infintisimal of a power at work beyond human comprehension & natural law.
Don't get me wrong here I'm not an adherent of intelligent design no more than you are just an atheist perspective leaves you wide open for this sort of subject matter where an agnostic viewpoint doesn't.
What I was trying to say originally is no one REALLY knows..

Anyway KEY CHANGE

Whos everyone listening too lately?
Been revisiting this guy myself.IMO I think Jeff Lang is one of the best roots/blues players around.his lap steel & dobro stuff is just outrageous

[youtube]ynCgkZDjca8[/youtube]

[youtube]kSsKjn6bySQ[/youtube]

Hi Pat,

Neck-wise I can't say that I've played a G&L with a neck I couldn't get along with (although that's not saying much, since G&L's aren't that common in my neck of the woods, and I've only played 4 of them over the past 20 years or so). I will say that as I've gotten older, I've gravitated towards chunky necks (C-Shape or U-Shape - no V-shape please [they don't feel very comfortable for me to play, since I play with my thumb behind the neck]). The necks I don't like are typically the uber thin ones found on a lot of Squiers, and the really thin Wizard profile neck that Ibanez uses on its super-strats (whenever I've played an Ibby with a Wizard profile neck, it felt like I was trying to press my fingers on the fretboard in such a manner, that they could pinch with the thumb behind the neck - not fun!). I also don't mcuh care for the infamous, super narrow "speed" necks that Gibson put on some of their guitars in the 60s and 70s. When I was in college in the 80s, my main guitar was a 70s Gibson Les Paul Signature, with a speed neck. I played nice further up the neck, but felt downright cramped for the first 3 frets of so by the nut.

Hey Pat,

Glad to see ya found your way back to the LR's.

As far as necks go, I have a range of 1's a couple of 2's and even a 3 with a v.... I guess the fav would have to be the 1a. It just feels really good.

I also have a few Godins... for a inexpensive guitar, their necks are hard to beat. Always really comfy to play.

Heres to a good week!
Scott

Hey Pat. Great seeing you back here. Missed you, buddy!

I've been redeemed
By the blood of a lamb....

Oh, never mind. I'm just hoppin' glad that Craig has allowed our putting our toes in these heretofore forbidden waters. We're all friends here after all. That I very much DO believe. Amen!

Favorite G&L Neck?: The neck on my "new" Legacy suits me perfectly. I think it is technically a 1(a). I like the pre-BBE necks too, but they are a tad on the thin side front to back in my experience....

Favorite non-G&L neck: Don Grosh makes a "medium" that is really sublime.

Thanks for a great start to the week! - ed

i hope moderators see that the discussion hasn't been about religion. it has been about the definition of atheist and theist. no one has yet to bang a name over someone's head. so i will ---nooooo! just kidding.

i would just insert that "disbelief" outside of a religious context is proactive and not neutral or passive. it suggests an existing bias towards acknowledging something. thus one would not be in a state of not knowing and instead would have an inclination towards accepting there is nothing to know that would change their current position.

i have never liked gospel music and i don't know what "worship" music is though i see the term popping up everywhere sometimes with its own sub-forum on music forums. i have been surprised to hear some pretty decent christian rock over the last couple of years. the lyrics get sickeningly sweet and sappy (in this case in the religious direction but the topic is being sickeningly sweet and sappy) but the melodies and arrangements are catchy. i have a relative who listens to it. i think a few songs would be considered good outside the genre.

g&l favorite neck -maple #1 with satin finish (but i have only played guitars with the #1 and #1a and a couple of tribute g&ls, do tributes have neck options?) the 1a is okay i just have large hands
non-g&l favorite neck -gibson
least favorite non-g&l neck -fender (squire) and prs

Last edited by Salmon on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pat, I had a great ham sandwich for lunch today. I am still recovering from the weekend.

I have no interest in anyones beliefs and I know that it was your original intent to not get into that discussion. My daughter Kari, played her first gigs in a worship band and she is now in our band and is a fantastic rhythm player and backup vocalist. To me, it makes no difference how you start, it is the end that counts.

As for necks, I have them all from the G&Ls to a fat neck Grosh and a bunch in between. I like them all and as primarily a bass player, I switch between 4 string and 5 string. They all work well and I haven't found a bad one yet. V neck, Fat neck, Wide thin neck, U neck, they all work well. The real key is having the action set up well and everything else works! Boy am I talking smart tonight! -- Darwin

I'm a non-atheist, but it doesn't stop me respecting an atheist's point of view, or disliking most religious music.

Respect

We agree to disagree then bud.athiesm & agnosticism are not always mutually exclusive of which you've conceded here,& atheism by definition DO deny the presence of a supreme being(look it up).no confusion in my terminology big fella..
Anyway Bernie Rico jr is out your way Louis isn't he mate? Have you checked out any of his builds?

Nice key change Mr. Page !

Mate I'm trying here!

1. Atheist

1.) A person who lacks belief in a god or gods.


another one, from merriam webster

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity.

and one more.

"There is, unfortunately, some disagreement about the definition of atheism. It is interesting to note that most of that disagreement comes from theists - atheists themselves tend to agree on what atheism means. Christians in particular dispute the definition used by atheists and insist that atheism means something very different.

The broader, and more common, understanding of atheism among atheists is quite simply "not believing in any gods." No claims or denials are made - an atheist is just a person who does not happen to be a theist. Most good, complete dictionaries readily support this."

as you can see, there is a confusion on your part, and atheism does not by definition assert that there is no god. an agnostic can be a theist or an atheist, depending on what their stance on belief is, as agnostic only refers to knowledge (or there lack of). look it up.


i have never heard of bernie rico jr. looked him up, some crazy looking guitars, but i don't know where he is located.

Big fella again you're proving my point.what part of "not believing in any gods" are you having problems with bud? lol youre melding agnosticism into atheism again,which is where i stand.and where you now stand after my initial post
If I was to speak popularly to the man on the street I would say I was an atheist,yet if I was in the company of a more intellectual or philosophical crowd like here I would say I was agnostic.can you tell me what caused the Big Bang?the golden ratio? are you familiar with the work of guys like penrose,carbon chemistry etc etc..
Sooner or later you will not have a rational or logical explanation & arrogance aside will have no choice but concede at the possibility albeit infintisimal of a power at work beyond human comprehension & natural law.
Don't get me wrong here I'm not an adherent of intelligent design no more than you are just an atheist perspective leaves you wide open for this sort of subject matter where an agnostic viewpoint doesn't.
What I was trying to say originally is no one REALLY knows..

Anyway KEY CHANGE

Whos everyone listening too lately?
Been revisiting this guy myself.IMO I think Jeff Lang is one of the best roots/blues players around.his lap steel & dobro stuff is just outrageous

[youtube]ynCgkZDjca8[/youtube]

[youtube]kSsKjn6bySQ[/youtube]

not having belief in is not the same as asserting a deity does not exist. one is a negative claim, the other a positive claim. agnostic overlaps both theist and atheist. you can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist. the 2 refer to different things. agnostic refers to your stance on knowledge (or there lack of), and atheist to your stance on belief (or there lack of). can you concede the possibility, however infinitesimal, of the invisible, weightless, pink unicorn sitting on your shoulder? i do concede the possibility of a deity (to be defined) but there is no evidence for it. i don't think you read carefully what i wrote, as it explained that atheism does not by definition assert that there is no god. on belief there are 2 positions. having it or not having it. on knowledge there are also 2 positions. having it or not having it. the list is gnostic theist, agnostic theist, agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist (also called anti-theist).

as far as "can you tell me what caused the Big Bang?the golden ratio?" no. but to assert a supernatural cause would be a logical fallacy called argument from ignorance. i agree that no one really knows. that is why i am an agnostic. and since there is no evidence, i also lack belief, therefore i am an atheist. you said your stance regarding knowledge, you are an agnostic. what is your stance on belief? do you believe a god exists?

No church services for me since xmas of '86, so I have no idea what "praise music" sounds like these days. I did get the chance to do some volunteer work with a mission deep in the South Carolina Lowcountry back around '85. I wish I could have recorded the spirituals and hollers I heard there. I've heard a couple of Smithsonian Folkways tracks from the 60s that came close, but none that captured the true feeling of that music.

My favorite G&L guitar neck is the #2 profile from back in the Leo era. I don't have much experience with newer G&L guitars, but none of the ones I've played had the same feel. They all felt very chunky in comparison. The fretboard doesn't make a difference to me in terms of playability or tone.

For basses, I'm very partial to the #8 Modern "C" profile. I have it on my ASAT Bass and L-1500, and find it to be extremely playable. My other favorite is the 1 5/8" profile used on many of the Leo era basses, like the El Toro, Interceptor and Lynx. It is more comfortable and faster playing for me than the slightly thicker 1 5/8" necks on the first-style SBs. My least favorite are any of the 1 3/4" profiles. I can't really feel a difference between my early L-1K and L-2KE and the newer L-2K. Those wide necks just aren't as fast as the thinner ones to me. Then again, the L-1K and L-2KE are my go-to basses for styles that don't require a lot of fast playing: Motown, early country and blues.

For nonG&L necks, the couple I've fallen in love with have been my Warwick Corvette Fretless and a PRS bass I fell in love with last year. They both have profiles similar to the G&L #8. The Warwick has a very flat fingerboard, but it works for me. The thing I love the most about the Warwick is that the neck is stained rather than having a sprayed finish. I keep it waxed (as Warwick recommends) - there is no perceptible friction between the neck and my hand.

Ken

Thanks guys for all the great responses. Im not going to touch some of the discussion I prompted unintentionally but I guess the reality of it is anytime you say what I said it starts it... Sorry about that Craig...

Im glad to see others here have tried other necks!

Not an atheist, don't like gospel or Christian music though..


Louis (and the black page), stay the hell away from Bernie Rico Junior if you can help it. If you want any evidence to support this, he is supposedly in and out of mental hospitals and hospitals constantly for health issues, while being terribly backed up from a black friday sale almost 3 years ago now. Look on Sevenstring.org for those nuggets. People were getting unacceptable guitars, errors, delammed tops, shims under fretboards, or just no guitar at all. Lied to about when it would ship (to get them to pay in full), etc.


Now that I got that out of the way, I don't have a favourite G&L neck, although I tend to prefer wider nuts, and larger radii on fretboards.

Hi, really interesting chat about this. Speaking about this very subject is clearly out of my range englishwise (and maybe french wise too) but it's definitely interesting. All I can add is that here, in France, the question of religion is really less present in everyday life (though the recent voting of a certain law put lots of christians in the streets).

Fav G&L neck is #1 definitely, but I didn't try a lot, actually, I took a bit of a chance with my first new G&L that has a #1, I liked it a lot despite having really small hands (there are no "man" size of glove that fit me )

The other brand, I pretty liked the new pattern regular of PRS, but strongly disliked the pattern thin, go figure !