Lunch Report 3/5/13
Fri May 03, 2013 11:29 am
An odd day today, I have eaten lunch before I posted. Today's lunch was 2 eggs, over easy, 2 toast, some bacon and a chunk of jarlsberg. A good meal if I do say so myself.
Where did innovation go?
This is one thing that has had my eye for a while, and that is where did the innovation go. When G&L broke in, it was because they were offering something newer, different. To me, it seems like Leo's prime concern was the sonic properties of the guitar, and that everything else was just the vessel for him to experiment and improve the electronics. If I recall correctly, Fullerton had made the invader, so may have had some other whackier ideas, something a little more fresh. But of the current offerings, the newest features still date back quite a ways.
We had the DFS not long ago, but those are nothing new, given the trend among tremolos for some time now. If anything, we have seen some regression, among things like ASAT juniors (pickguards, P90s and ToM's), and a bunch of cosmetic differences present in prototypes.
Nothing that really grabs the eye and says "I need to try that" though. So where did it go? Did it die with Leo as I suspect? Do you prefer innovation?
Tough questions, I know, but every year I watch NAMM to see what is new, what catches my eye. Another iteration doesn't do that, generally.
A second topic for Friday
Insert generic other topic? Well, I am running out of steam here.
It seems to me that the way we listen to music is changing a lot over my generation. When I grew up Cassettes were the norm, and CDs came around full force probably later in my first decade, early in my second. I haven't made it past that point really, I still actively hoard CD's. I do not buy digital albums unless there is no other choice (see some older stuff, no longer available as bands are defunct etc, Ark - Burn the Sun for example). I don't like the idea of buying something I cannot hold, or retrieve easily.
For travel's sake, I use an iPod classic, but that is about the only reason I do. Holds my well sized library so that keeps me happy. Paired with some noise cancelling head phones, planes are a lot more tolerable. I still am not terribly fond of these devices, but they do win for convinience. What are you using?
The other thing I have noticed, is people don't really listen to music anymore. They seem to just want melodic background noise, or maybe some pretty lyrics (or in many cases retarded lyrics). If you want to reach the masses, the song is no longer important (if it ever was). Music is not something most people stop and do, it is something they use to buffer other things they are doing. I am guilty of this at work, in a large office filled with contractors and sub contractors, choosing my background opposed to listening to them.
The difference is given the chance, I like to turn on CD's , and just listen. Figure out what they are doing, pick the music apart, what makes it interesting or different. If need be, hop back to the guitar and figure out what just happened there through imitation, then dissection. I do think it is necessarily we are too busy too listen to music, but too distracted, certainly explains the sorry state of popular music.
Do you listen to music?
Guess that one is it for me, cheers folks, I'll be checking in on this as I am curious as to what you think. Here is are contrasting tunes from the album I mentioned, a pretty interesting album, a lot of spanish / flamenco influences over the course of it, not present in Noose though. Makes for some interesting contrast.
[youtube]xDMWkVKmVzE[/youtube]
[youtube]7EDHXblbW5c[/youtube]
Where did innovation go?
This is one thing that has had my eye for a while, and that is where did the innovation go. When G&L broke in, it was because they were offering something newer, different. To me, it seems like Leo's prime concern was the sonic properties of the guitar, and that everything else was just the vessel for him to experiment and improve the electronics. If I recall correctly, Fullerton had made the invader, so may have had some other whackier ideas, something a little more fresh. But of the current offerings, the newest features still date back quite a ways.
We had the DFS not long ago, but those are nothing new, given the trend among tremolos for some time now. If anything, we have seen some regression, among things like ASAT juniors (pickguards, P90s and ToM's), and a bunch of cosmetic differences present in prototypes.
Nothing that really grabs the eye and says "I need to try that" though. So where did it go? Did it die with Leo as I suspect? Do you prefer innovation?
Tough questions, I know, but every year I watch NAMM to see what is new, what catches my eye. Another iteration doesn't do that, generally.
A second topic for Friday
Insert generic other topic? Well, I am running out of steam here.
It seems to me that the way we listen to music is changing a lot over my generation. When I grew up Cassettes were the norm, and CDs came around full force probably later in my first decade, early in my second. I haven't made it past that point really, I still actively hoard CD's. I do not buy digital albums unless there is no other choice (see some older stuff, no longer available as bands are defunct etc, Ark - Burn the Sun for example). I don't like the idea of buying something I cannot hold, or retrieve easily.
For travel's sake, I use an iPod classic, but that is about the only reason I do. Holds my well sized library so that keeps me happy. Paired with some noise cancelling head phones, planes are a lot more tolerable. I still am not terribly fond of these devices, but they do win for convinience. What are you using?
The other thing I have noticed, is people don't really listen to music anymore. They seem to just want melodic background noise, or maybe some pretty lyrics (or in many cases retarded lyrics). If you want to reach the masses, the song is no longer important (if it ever was). Music is not something most people stop and do, it is something they use to buffer other things they are doing. I am guilty of this at work, in a large office filled with contractors and sub contractors, choosing my background opposed to listening to them.
The difference is given the chance, I like to turn on CD's , and just listen. Figure out what they are doing, pick the music apart, what makes it interesting or different. If need be, hop back to the guitar and figure out what just happened there through imitation, then dissection. I do think it is necessarily we are too busy too listen to music, but too distracted, certainly explains the sorry state of popular music.
Do you listen to music?
Guess that one is it for me, cheers folks, I'll be checking in on this as I am curious as to what you think. Here is are contrasting tunes from the album I mentioned, a pretty interesting album, a lot of spanish / flamenco influences over the course of it, not present in Noose though. Makes for some interesting contrast.
[youtube]xDMWkVKmVzE[/youtube]
[youtube]7EDHXblbW5c[/youtube]
Re: Lunch Report 3/5/13
Fri May 03, 2013 12:45 pm
Kyle, I have really enjoyed your reports this week. I had leftover pizza for lunch, certainly not any healthier that what you had bit it worked!
Innovation in guitars is probably very subtle. The question is how do we change them. A lot of new electronic advances have been tried, especially electronic tuning and different sounds, both modeling and recently by effecting the strings directly and generally guitarists don't like these things. My Fender Cyber Twin is not a normal modeling amp but has actual amps built into it. People didn't like them because the presets were way overdone and they were considered difficult to program. The line 6 Variax guitars were anything but a hit. They now have new models and they will probably be no more successful than the Variax. Gibson has been experimenting with the Robot and Firebird and they seem to be the Edsels of the guitar world. I think the improvements of recent guitars have been subtle but very good in the finish, bridges and build (CNC). I think the electronics are better than ever. There are more options for modifications than ever. The problem becomes with the interpretation of innovation. It's kind of like trying to change Harley Davidson. Most of the Harley riders like it when they loose fillings in their teeth from the shaking. Their models with the counterbalanced engine don't sell well because they are too smooth. Many of them have loud pipes installed before they go out the door. I don't want one but it all gets down to marketing. You could be the most creative, inventive guitar builder in the world and unless someone like them, they will not sell. I tried a Fender VG a few years back and I didn't care for it as I could hear the real tunings along with the alternate tunings. That was another hyped hot item that became cold quickly.
Kyle, I now have high speed internet so I can watch the clips. I listened to both and the second one I found musically interesting. I do not use an I-rig to listen to music and I am not impressed by most of the current stuff. I am a relic, stuck in the early years. I listen to music completely and seldom hear the works so the lyrical message in a song doesn't do anything for me. I listen to everything in the instrumentation. It is probably a bad habit that I developed early on but that is what I hear. There is a lot of music today that is nothing but beat and noise. I understand that I am a minority and that the music producers are not depending on me for a living. Just last night I was listening to the Everly Brothers on their comeback tour with Albert Lee and that is sweet music to my ears. They had a great backup band and I really enjoy that. I also think new country is a bummer. Give me Vince Gill and you have my attention. I would not make a good busker because I don't know or remember the words. Come to think of it, it is probably best that I am retired. I am still stuck on CDs and have a bunch of vinyl that I get into once in the while. Where else are you going to find "Millers Cave" by Hank Snow??? I have to confess the lyrics in "Don't Touch My Willie" got my attention. Our band does it. Thanks for the fun week Kyle and make sure those tunnels are safe!-- Darwin
Innovation in guitars is probably very subtle. The question is how do we change them. A lot of new electronic advances have been tried, especially electronic tuning and different sounds, both modeling and recently by effecting the strings directly and generally guitarists don't like these things. My Fender Cyber Twin is not a normal modeling amp but has actual amps built into it. People didn't like them because the presets were way overdone and they were considered difficult to program. The line 6 Variax guitars were anything but a hit. They now have new models and they will probably be no more successful than the Variax. Gibson has been experimenting with the Robot and Firebird and they seem to be the Edsels of the guitar world. I think the improvements of recent guitars have been subtle but very good in the finish, bridges and build (CNC). I think the electronics are better than ever. There are more options for modifications than ever. The problem becomes with the interpretation of innovation. It's kind of like trying to change Harley Davidson. Most of the Harley riders like it when they loose fillings in their teeth from the shaking. Their models with the counterbalanced engine don't sell well because they are too smooth. Many of them have loud pipes installed before they go out the door. I don't want one but it all gets down to marketing. You could be the most creative, inventive guitar builder in the world and unless someone like them, they will not sell. I tried a Fender VG a few years back and I didn't care for it as I could hear the real tunings along with the alternate tunings. That was another hyped hot item that became cold quickly.
Kyle, I now have high speed internet so I can watch the clips. I listened to both and the second one I found musically interesting. I do not use an I-rig to listen to music and I am not impressed by most of the current stuff. I am a relic, stuck in the early years. I listen to music completely and seldom hear the works so the lyrical message in a song doesn't do anything for me. I listen to everything in the instrumentation. It is probably a bad habit that I developed early on but that is what I hear. There is a lot of music today that is nothing but beat and noise. I understand that I am a minority and that the music producers are not depending on me for a living. Just last night I was listening to the Everly Brothers on their comeback tour with Albert Lee and that is sweet music to my ears. They had a great backup band and I really enjoy that. I also think new country is a bummer. Give me Vince Gill and you have my attention. I would not make a good busker because I don't know or remember the words. Come to think of it, it is probably best that I am retired. I am still stuck on CDs and have a bunch of vinyl that I get into once in the while. Where else are you going to find "Millers Cave" by Hank Snow??? I have to confess the lyrics in "Don't Touch My Willie" got my attention. Our band does it. Thanks for the fun week Kyle and make sure those tunnels are safe!-- Darwin
Re: Lunch Report 3/5/13
Fri May 03, 2013 6:04 pm
I know what you mean Darwin. Guitarists are a tradition worshipping lot. Bassists are generally much more reasonable.
I also don't listen much to lyrics at all. Voice is just another instrument for me, most of the time. The second one is quite the interesting piece, and I feel the handled the transition from acoustic to hard rock/ metal very well in it. It doesn't really feel out of place, nor was it just a token tacked on clean intro. Shame they stopped working together after that album, I think the guitarist has done very little if anything since.
I also don't listen much to lyrics at all. Voice is just another instrument for me, most of the time. The second one is quite the interesting piece, and I feel the handled the transition from acoustic to hard rock/ metal very well in it. It doesn't really feel out of place, nor was it just a token tacked on clean intro. Shame they stopped working together after that album, I think the guitarist has done very little if anything since.
Re: Lunch Report 3/5/13
Sat May 04, 2013 6:23 am
Hey Kyle.
Tough audience on Fridays
How are you enjoying the FIFO lifestyle? The Health Service I work for provides services throughout rural Western Australia with significant parts of the State's mining industry being sustained with a FIFO workforce. Presents a few challenges.
Innovation. I really think BBE is between a rock and a hard place here. How do they preserve Mr Fenders legacy. Indeed what was the legacy – a commitment to continued development and change or G&L as it was in 1991. With the likes of Paul Gagon on board BBE has the capacity to innovate and move forward but as they progressively move away from what G&L was in 1991 they will likely be decried by the Leo stalwarts … but then the only alternative is to remain forever a snapshot in time. Damned if they do – damned if they don’t.
Do You Listen to Music. Unequivocally yes - I grew up with parents and their friends who were musicians and highly music focussed. I was fortunate to connect with a group of friends through school who were like minded and a couple of them have been the nucleus of almost all the bands I've played in since high school. While I'm not a singer, words are important though - they need to have as much substance as each instrumental contribution.
Like you I prefer my music collection in a tangible form with a combination of 78’s, 45’s, 33.33’s, cassettes, CD’s, DVD-A and DVD video. My daily commute these days is a 45 minute drive each way which pretty much guarantees a couple of albums of uninterrupted listening a day. I’d definitely echo your sentiment that for many people these days music is being used in the workplace not so much for its intrinsic value but as a substitute for visual and auditory barriers due to the appalling and economically driven changes to workplace design.
Clips. Nice tacks from Ark. And yes while I don’t know the circumstances around Ostby’s “disappearance” it is a shame that we didn’t see more of him. His resurfacing a few years back with Street Legal was little more than what in Australia would be described as pub rock.
Gratuitous Clip for no reason other than its prog rock with Spanish influence. From 1974 Carmen’s “Dancing On a Cold Wind” featuring the late John Glascock and Angela Allen who both went on to perform with Jethro Tull
[youtube]217V7wFIMsM[/youtube]
cheer, Robbie
Tough audience on Fridays
How are you enjoying the FIFO lifestyle? The Health Service I work for provides services throughout rural Western Australia with significant parts of the State's mining industry being sustained with a FIFO workforce. Presents a few challenges.
Innovation. I really think BBE is between a rock and a hard place here. How do they preserve Mr Fenders legacy. Indeed what was the legacy – a commitment to continued development and change or G&L as it was in 1991. With the likes of Paul Gagon on board BBE has the capacity to innovate and move forward but as they progressively move away from what G&L was in 1991 they will likely be decried by the Leo stalwarts … but then the only alternative is to remain forever a snapshot in time. Damned if they do – damned if they don’t.
Do You Listen to Music. Unequivocally yes - I grew up with parents and their friends who were musicians and highly music focussed. I was fortunate to connect with a group of friends through school who were like minded and a couple of them have been the nucleus of almost all the bands I've played in since high school. While I'm not a singer, words are important though - they need to have as much substance as each instrumental contribution.
Like you I prefer my music collection in a tangible form with a combination of 78’s, 45’s, 33.33’s, cassettes, CD’s, DVD-A and DVD video. My daily commute these days is a 45 minute drive each way which pretty much guarantees a couple of albums of uninterrupted listening a day. I’d definitely echo your sentiment that for many people these days music is being used in the workplace not so much for its intrinsic value but as a substitute for visual and auditory barriers due to the appalling and economically driven changes to workplace design.
Clips. Nice tacks from Ark. And yes while I don’t know the circumstances around Ostby’s “disappearance” it is a shame that we didn’t see more of him. His resurfacing a few years back with Street Legal was little more than what in Australia would be described as pub rock.
Gratuitous Clip for no reason other than its prog rock with Spanish influence. From 1974 Carmen’s “Dancing On a Cold Wind” featuring the late John Glascock and Angela Allen who both went on to perform with Jethro Tull
[youtube]217V7wFIMsM[/youtube]
cheer, Robbie
Re: Lunch Report 3/5/13
Sat May 04, 2013 12:47 pm
Robbie, thanks for chiming in. You are absolutely right about innovation, it is that whole backwards nonsense guitarists are so fond of worshiping at its finest unfortunately. You can't keep anyone happy, look at the initial 'failure' of the Fly. I have never played on but I hear they are as comfy as can be and exceptional instruments.
And yeah, tough crowd fridays, thursday too apparently no problem though, just carry on. I liked FIFO as I had half the year off, that is coming to an end right now, possible though. It was the trip to this place that was brutal, ending (or starting) with a 6 hour coach bus ride. In a really crappy coach. Otherwise, it was like being half retired.
I was thinking of looking into that Street Legal non-sense as I just found it yesterday combing, entirely because Ostby was involved, but now I shall stay well clear. I will have to check out more of Carmen when I have time, listened to 10-15 and it is neat stuff.
And yeah, tough crowd fridays, thursday too apparently no problem though, just carry on. I liked FIFO as I had half the year off, that is coming to an end right now, possible though. It was the trip to this place that was brutal, ending (or starting) with a 6 hour coach bus ride. In a really crappy coach. Otherwise, it was like being half retired.
I was thinking of looking into that Street Legal non-sense as I just found it yesterday combing, entirely because Ostby was involved, but now I shall stay well clear. I will have to check out more of Carmen when I have time, listened to 10-15 and it is neat stuff.
Re: Lunch Report 3/5/13
Sat May 04, 2013 3:35 pm
Dayum dude that ark stuff was sensational 
I'm a shameless source referencer sorry but that first track couldn't help but make me think of what dio may have sounded like with dream theater.compostioally flawless to boot.criminal how much cream hardly sees the light of day eh..
Regarding innovation i think G & L are in between a rock & a hard place of sorts & given their client base are walking a brilliant tightrope of sorts.purists can still reflect on yester year some while models like the fiorani,invader etc offer something for the modern player as well.the advancements with G & L have been slight in comparison to some other name "brands" but incrementally forward all the same.i definelty see your angle in the NAMM sense though.
I too am a tangible entity when it comes to acquiring music.eveything from old Gary Moore & ozzy picture discs to signed copies of cd's to take you back to gigs & meet & greets of times gone by.the convenience of MP3 players though is pretty darn handy! Who would have thought back when we were slowing vinyl down to 16 to ape licks that not long after we'd have our entire collections in our pockets
I'd hate to think that our generations are predominantly one of the last to sit in unison round a stereo,skin a big fat one or crack the top off a beverage & genuinely savior dark side of the moon,just another band from LA,thick as a brick et al at the forefront of our union but its increasingly looking that way.anyway best I throw an iron in the fire too,this a little known Aussie fusion band doing great things IMO,probably to crowds of well under 100 if the current state of the live music scene is anything to go by...
Will read back brought your other reports in the next day or 3 bro,this one has been a great read!!
Cheers...
[youtube]L6KnMlNUXts[/youtube]
I'm a shameless source referencer sorry but that first track couldn't help but make me think of what dio may have sounded like with dream theater.compostioally flawless to boot.criminal how much cream hardly sees the light of day eh..
Regarding innovation i think G & L are in between a rock & a hard place of sorts & given their client base are walking a brilliant tightrope of sorts.purists can still reflect on yester year some while models like the fiorani,invader etc offer something for the modern player as well.the advancements with G & L have been slight in comparison to some other name "brands" but incrementally forward all the same.i definelty see your angle in the NAMM sense though.
I too am a tangible entity when it comes to acquiring music.eveything from old Gary Moore & ozzy picture discs to signed copies of cd's to take you back to gigs & meet & greets of times gone by.the convenience of MP3 players though is pretty darn handy! Who would have thought back when we were slowing vinyl down to 16 to ape licks that not long after we'd have our entire collections in our pockets
I'd hate to think that our generations are predominantly one of the last to sit in unison round a stereo,skin a big fat one or crack the top off a beverage & genuinely savior dark side of the moon,just another band from LA,thick as a brick et al at the forefront of our union but its increasingly looking that way.anyway best I throw an iron in the fire too,this a little known Aussie fusion band doing great things IMO,probably to crowds of well under 100 if the current state of the live music scene is anything to go by...
Will read back brought your other reports in the next day or 3 bro,this one has been a great read!!
Cheers...
[youtube]L6KnMlNUXts[/youtube]
Re: Lunch Report 3/5/13
Sat May 04, 2013 4:30 pm
Thanks for chiming in, I have never heard thick as a brick oddly, but Aqualung is a very old favourite of mine. Nothing seems able to displace that album for me, and the bass line on the title track just owns. I've been in the process of acquiring all the milestone classic albums lately, and only heard Dark Side (for real, the whole album) only a month or 2 ago.
Ark has 2 albums, and although I do not have the first, it is supposed to be a bit wilder. That one (burn the sun) is supposed to be the tamer of the 2, or it melds influences better, not sure which it actually is. Glad you enjoyed it, and I recommend procuring a copy it rocks.
Thanks for the fusion stuff, both your track and the Aussie one. Those guys had me jamming along (as I am practicing bass right now). I am a big fan of the fusion scene, particularly some of the old stuff, it all started with acquiring Stanley Clarkes new album though (The Stanley Clarke Band, which I highly recommend). That was a really great one.
Had a better reply, but lost it haha .
Cheers.
Ark has 2 albums, and although I do not have the first, it is supposed to be a bit wilder. That one (burn the sun) is supposed to be the tamer of the 2, or it melds influences better, not sure which it actually is. Glad you enjoyed it, and I recommend procuring a copy it rocks.
Thanks for the fusion stuff, both your track and the Aussie one. Those guys had me jamming along (as I am practicing bass right now). I am a big fan of the fusion scene, particularly some of the old stuff, it all started with acquiring Stanley Clarkes new album though (The Stanley Clarke Band, which I highly recommend). That was a really great one.
Had a better reply, but lost it haha .
Cheers.
Re: Lunch Report 3/5/13
Sat May 04, 2013 7:54 pm
It's been a great week, Kyle. I haven't had time to chime in often, but I followed all of the threads.
If you check out any live performances from the 80s, chances are the bass line was played on a very early clear blue L-1000. Quite a beautiful bass on stage.
I'm also one for having hard copies of music. I have an iPod that rarely gets used, but every song on it came from a CD. I was psyched to find a copy of Nick Cave's new disc today, although I haven't had a chance to listen yet. IMO, a good album (which I hope this one is) needs to be listened to all the way through at least a couple of times before individual songs go onto repeat.
Ken
sirmyghin wrote:Aqualung is a very old favourite of mine. Nothing seems able to displace that album for me, and the bass line on the title track just owns.
If you check out any live performances from the 80s, chances are the bass line was played on a very early clear blue L-1000. Quite a beautiful bass on stage.
I'm also one for having hard copies of music. I have an iPod that rarely gets used, but every song on it came from a CD. I was psyched to find a copy of Nick Cave's new disc today, although I haven't had a chance to listen yet. IMO, a good album (which I hope this one is) needs to be listened to all the way through at least a couple of times before individual songs go onto repeat.
Ken
Re: Lunch Report 3/5/13
Mon May 06, 2013 5:11 am
sirmyghin wrote:I was thinking of looking into that Street Legal non-sense as I just found it yesterday combing, entirely because Ostby was involved, but now I shall stay well clear.
There is hope ... from Ostby on another forum in September last year.
I would like to let you know that I am still playing and writing, though I have been taking a longer break. I am actually about to set up a new band together with Leo, the drummer of Pain of Salvation. Now we are looking for the right singer and a pumping bass player, and then we will be ready to make the next steps. We will probably be more official about this in a little while.
And another poster on the same forum ...
I just spoke to Leo from PoS briefly about this project. He said it's still in the writing stages but described it as "picking up where ARK left off" with a lot of Spanish influences, definitely exciting news in my book.
cheers, Robbie
Re: Lunch Report 3/5/13
Mon May 06, 2013 8:53 am
Robbie - some interesting news there, thanks for posting it.