LUNCH REPORT for Tuesday, May 22, 2012

Thanks for all the responses yesterday and it was nice to see some familiar faces (so to speak) from GbL 1.0. I can’t tell you how thrilled I am that I put yesterday’s lunch report in the correct area. We had “Henry Ford” type choices on the old GbL. You may have heard that when he discussed colors for the Model T, Henry said, “Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black”. We had ONE forum category and threads disappeared like M&M’s at a fat farm.

I was thinking about all the stuff that’s happened in my life since the new GbL started. My youngest son got married, my oldest son and his wife gave us our first grandchild, I was transferred to our parent corporation, lost 54 lbs, had a little heart attack and got two stents as a consolation prize. Our singer got a job out of town so he moved, we replaced him with a guy who didn’t work out, and we’re grooming the next guy. The wheel keeps turning whether we want it to or not!

One of the things I enjoyed about hanging out on the GbL was finding common ground with guys I’d never met, and probably never would meet. All it takes is one little thread to form a bond, of sorts, or at least an appreciation for what someone has experienced. In scanning threads, I’m fascinated by Darwin’s Runestone connection (I enjoy history), and the brief story on what Louis went through to get here is unreal. I don’t know if anyone born and raised in the US can comprehend what that must have been like.

So, what’s your story? What makes you, you? Ever shot yourself in the hand with a nail gun? C’mon, give it up! Here’s your chance! Tell us your story!

LUNCH:
I’m going to be at a customers plant today, so if I don’t take someone to lunch I’ll probably hit Subway for a 6” turkey and ham on whole wheat, and a bottle of water. What the hell . . . it worked for Jared.

G&L TOPIC:
One of the best parts about the old GbL was the knowledge that hung around on a daily basis. I know there are some very knowledgeable guys here today, but I really enjoyed seeing posts from guys like Greg Gagliano, Tim Page, and Gabe Dellevigne. They could really get into the history of G&L - really dig deep. I know Tim is fairly active here and we’re fortunate to have his expertise. Tim’s relationship with George Fullerton was a real blessing, and he was a great source for interesting information.

Gabe used to have some real interesting stuff to post and seemed to have the answer to just about any question you could ask about G&L’s - especially Leo Era questions. One that I hung onto was his pickup comparison between an MFD and a vintage Strat pickup. People used to ask all the time if an MFD could fit in their Strat or a vintage pickup could fit in a G&L. This was a good visual.



Gabe had tons of stuff like this, and Greg was loaded with information, as well. The two of them were working on a book about G&L a few years ago. I emailed Greg to see if they’re still working on it, but I haven’t heard back yet. Perhaps someone here knows the status. If so, please let us know!

Do you have any pictures or wiring tips you’d like to share from some of our technical guru’s? Do you find the pictures or diagrams in the Gallery to be useful when you’re thinking about wiring mods?

Here’s my submission as a sustain enhancing tech tip. It’s a bugger to string up, but when you get it right . . . oh yea, tonal nirvana.


NON-G&L TOPIC:
Boo-teek guitars. Electric or acoustic, there sure are a lot of them out there. There were a fair number of guys on the old GbL who played higher end acoustics - Huss & Dalton, Collings, Santa Cruz, Bourgeois, etc. When it comes to acoustic guitars, I think it’s easy to see (or hear) the value of the craftsmanship that goes into the guitar. On the electric side, some are fairly innovative while others just seem to be a rehash of old designs using readily available parts. Some I get, some I don’t, but as long as someone gets it and they have a check book, we have a winner. Most don’t compete in the same market as G&L, so I figure it’s safe to discuss some of them here.

I was recently introduced to CP Thornton custom built guitars. Chuck Thornton builds a great guitar and puts a lot of thought into adding his own twist to some of the more basic designs. While he builds guitars that are along the same line as a Tele, Strat, and Les Paul, they’re different - especially the Tele and Strat type guitars. His neck joint design is unique, which causes other changes in the body. He’s also starting to build set-neck T and S style guitars. Interesting. I wonder if that has a big effect on tone?

Here’s a link to the “Innovations” page for Chuck’s guitars. I like the neck heel, and his neck attachment design must make the Gibson “long-tenon” fanboy’s get a tingle up their leg. I’ve become a big fan of Chuck’s work, and he’s one heck of a nice guy, too.

http://www.cpthorntonguitars.com/solidbody-guitars/innovations/

Have you checked out any boutique builders? What’s your opinion concerning their guitars? Let’s not forget acoustic guitars. Ever strummed a $3,000+ acoustic? Did you notice a big difference in tone or volume, or did you stare at it and wonder why it didn’t include a pickup for that price?

Me, I’m scared to death to own a high end acoustic. Not sure why, other than I’m not sure I’d ever play it. I own a high end electric that I play almost daily, while my Larrivee OM sits in the case.

Day 2 is underway and I need to get on the road. I’ll check in later today.
Ches

the neck joint is one of my biggest issue with g&l, but i think tom anderson has the best one i have seen. i don't care for the angled neck and the extra body weight that comes with. i also want 6 inline tuners. so cp thornton is out for me. over 2k, the quality difference really becomes visual in my opinion. i don't really care for the fancy look. i really like ron kirn's guitars and for around 2200, you get a complete custom guitar, the way you want it done.

another issue i have with most guitars is the size of the lower cutaway. i have big hands, and even more than the neck joint, the cutaway size limits easy upper fret access for me. i did my own t style body that i contoured the lower horn, it looks the same from the front, but has extra room routed out and from the back it looks like a skinny horn.

my favorite acoustic is northwood currently, it kicked the top end Huss & Dalton, Collings, Santa Cruz, Bourgeois and other high end acoustics' butt. but my taylor gs mini holds up surprisingly well also. i only like parlor or 000 size guitars though for acoustic.

i don't have pics, but i rewire all my electrics, i have very specific taste in what i want. low torque linear taper volume pot, high torque audio taper tone pot, fezz parka wiring, villex passive midbooster, reverse control plate on t style with angled switch. on s style, i want the tone controls out of the circuit on position 2 and 4. star shielding as well.

Great reports Ches. Lunch is unknown today but that is okay for a retired dude. I don't need to plan a lot but love to just roll.

I first joined the forum about three years ago. Gabe was posting a lot and I really enjoyed his posts. I didn't see any posts by Greg but know that he is also very knowledgeable on the G&L history. These guys were a gem. We are always facing constant change and these guys do not post anymore. We are very fortunate to have Craig who has been a ton of help to all of us.

I have done wiring, pot replacement and such. I am not into modding but have installed a Bigsby on the Bluesboy that I had. As for some stupid things, I have done my own. I was using an air stapler to install a convertible top and put a staple through my index finger near the end. The worst part was pulling it out. Ginny thinks I am my own biggest hazard.

Louis mentioned neck joints. Many guitar builder claim to have unique neck joints. My Taylor solid body has a one bolt system that pulls the neck to the body. The Parker Southern has a rounded pocket the neck bolts into. The Suhr has a tapered body heel. The PRS also has a different heal which allow better access to the higher frets. I think many of the high end guitars are refined but I am not sure there is anything out of the ordinary. If I were going to order a custom build, it would probably be a Ron Kirn T type. There are a lot of nice ones out there. I do have a couple of high end acoustics but only use them for some recording. I am not an acoustic fan as such. For the money, especially used, G&Ls are the best buy on the planet. If I were to rate my guitars on resonance and sustain I would rate the Gretsches, Taylor SB and my Hamer Newport as being exceptional.

Has anyone contacted you on buying the rights to your sustain mod??????? Great reports Ches-- Darwin

Yep, I sure miss the IN DEPTH technical stuff that Gabe, Greg, & many other of the regulars shared with us. I hope it all winds up in a book someday so we never lose it. And that reminds me to digitize that superfantastic article that Greg wrote for "20th Century Guitar" on the history of the ASAT. Man, I bought all the copies just to clip that thing. That should be posted on this website forevermore.

The highest end acoustic I own is a Taylor all-maple 600 Special Edition. It has amaziing volume - more than any I've ever heard roar out of an unplugged acoustic. I have a relatively inexpensive Yamaha that is high quality construction but lower volume, which I also enjoy. Some day, I will likely swap the Taylor for a Collings acoustic.

Thanks for posting that image of the MFD. That reminded me of the outstanding tone that I get from my Skyhawk signature. Here's where I need Greg or Gabe. I know those signature guitars were made late 80's, but because of the casual serial number assignment system, I can't be sure exactly when it was made. Not that it really matters. And I'm damn sure not going to unbolt that wonderful 3-bolt neck to check it out & risk never getting this thing away from the perfect setup it has now. Tone? To my ears, Leo never made anything with better tone than the Skyhawk.

Booteek Thornton custom guitars, you say? I realize he's only made slightly over 300 guitars, but I just ordered my 22nd one. No 23 is pending the sale of a guitar i have on consignment now. Last week I got this Thornton Classic



It is a set neck with a slab body. I did a crude-but-systematic sustain test over the weekend vs. 2 other guitars from the harem. One of the others was my '52 Fender Tele Reissue, which I adore. I did 10 blind trials thru a totally clean Mesa TransAtlantic amp & the CpT Classic average sustain time was about 18.2 seconds & the Tele time was 6.3 seconds - almost triple. The body woods, components, & design of the 2 guitars are almost identical; but the Classic has some innovation & genius behind it that goes beyond where Leo left off.

Worth it? To each his own, but I sure think so. Don't get me wrong, my 80's ASAT, SC-2, SC-3, S-500, Skyhawk, & WTFemployeeguitar are all going to be left in my will - but I think the CpT line is the best combination of player & investment I've run across.

Good 'un, Ches.

Jay

I came here looking for info on my favorite guitar and found out they were all that great. Bought a nice pickguard too...

Boo-teeks. I like the neck join on my Anderson:




Cheers,

Will

I came here looking for info on my favorite guitar and found out they were all that great. Bought a nice pickguard too...

Boo-teeks. I like the neck join on my Anderson:




Cheers,

Will

i love that joint. unlike what darwin says, i think it is out of the ordinary. much more contact surface, tighter fit, less room required, heel can be contoured much better, and literally impossible for the neck 2 shift.

Here is the neck joint on the Parker. It is also self centering and probably accomplishes alignment similar to the Anderson joint. -- Darwin

I tried a couple of mods on various guitars , new pups in my Fender Strat, different pg's, but I normally find myself returning to the original setup, which was probably why I bought that particular guitar in the 1st place... although I kept the Leo Sounds in the strat.

I certainly can't afford high end acoustics, I have a Martin and that'll have to do! Its a really nice guitar so I'm happy. I've played a few custom shop builds and a really beautify LSL guitar (logo remind you of anything???) but they're way out of budget................ maybe once my business takes off I'll treat myself!

john

the neck joint is one of my biggest issue with g&l, but i think tom anderson has the best one i have seen.

my favorite acoustic is northwood currently, it kicked the top end Huss & Dalton, Collings, Santa Cruz, Bourgeois and other high end acoustics' butt. but my taylor gs mini holds up surprisingly well also. i only like parlor or 000 size guitars though for acoustic.

i don't have pics, but i rewire all my electrics, i have very specific taste in what i want. low torque linear taper volume pot, high torque audio taper tone pot, fezz parka wiring, villex passive midbooster, reverse control plate on t style with angled switch. on s style, i want the tone controls out of the circuit on position 2 and 4. star shielding as well.

The Anderson neck joint does look pretty solid. He does a good job overall with adding his twist to a traditional design. His pickups are interesting, too.

Never played a Northwood. I'll have to check one out if I get the chance.

I think it's good when you know exactly what you want in a guitar, especially down to the electronics. In the end, personal preference and whether or not you're comfortable with the guitar is what it's all about.

Great reports Ches. Lunch is unknown today but that is okay for a retired dude. I don't need to plan a lot but love to just roll.

I first joined the forum about three years ago. Gabe was posting a lot and I really enjoyed his posts.
We are very fortunate to have Craig who has been a ton of help to all of us.

Ginny thinks I am my own biggest hazard.

Louis mentioned neck joints. Many guitar builder claim to have unique neck joints. My Taylor solid body has a one bolt system that pulls the neck to the body. The Parker Southern has a rounded pocket the neck bolts into. The Suhr has a tapered body heel. The PRS also has a different heal which allow better access to the higher frets. I think many of the high end guitars are refined but I am not sure there is anything out of the ordinary. If I were going to order a custom build, it would probably be a Ron Kirn T type. There are a lot of nice ones out there. I do have a couple of high end acoustics but only use them for some recording. I am not an acoustic fan as such. For the money, especially used, G&Ls are the best buy on the planet. If I were to rate my guitars on resonance and sustain I would rate the Gretsches, Taylor SB and my Hamer Newport as being exceptional.

Has anyone contacted you on buying the rights to your sustain mod??????? Great reports Ches-- Darwin

Thanks for the kind words, Darwin.

Gabe put up some real interesting posts. Great on history and a real good builder. He was building a guitar with his niece, I believe, and I think he was building one for his son, too. I wonder how those turned out? As for Craig, he's one of the best. Dave McLaren, too. A couple top notch guys in my opinion!

After reading your post, I think Ginny may have a point!

There sure are a bunch of alternate neck joints. The one-bolt Taylor is different, but it must be pretty secure or they wouldn't use it. There are a pile of guys out there doing different things and all have their merits. It's great being us, isn't it? We have choices!!!

That headstock pic was taken from an ebay ad. I couldn't believe it.

Yep, I sure miss the IN DEPTH technical stuff that Gabe, Greg, & many other of the regulars shared with us. I hope it all winds up in a book someday so we never lose it. And that reminds me to digitize that superfantastic article that Greg wrote for "20th Century Guitar" on the history of the ASAT. Man, I bought all the copies just to clip that thing. That should be posted on this website forevermore.

Booteek Thornton custom guitars, you say? I realize he's only made slightly over 300 guitars, but I just ordered my 22nd one. No 23 is pending the sale of a guitar i have on consignment now.

Worth it? To each his own, but I sure think so. Don't get me wrong, my 80's ASAT, SC-2, SC-3, S-500, Skyhawk, & WTFemployeeguitar are all going to be left in my will - but I think the CpT line is the best combination of player & investment I've run across.
Jay

Hey Jay - You need to scan and post Greg's article. I bet Craig would post it in the archives somewhere.

Your problem is, you lack commitment. There are 278 Thornton's out there that you didn't buy. What gives?

"Worth" is definitely an individual issue. Kind of like your insurance deductible. It all has to do with your threshold of pain, I suppose. I gig my Thornton LS, but if I spent more on some super duper whatever, I might leave it at home. Of course, that would violate my "if it doesn't get gigged, it get's sold" rule, so there's no chance I'll buy that super duper whatever!

I came here looking for info on my favorite guitar and found out they were all that great. Bought a nice pickguard too...

Boo-teeks. I like the neck join on my Anderson:




Cheers,

Will

That is a solid looking neck joint, isn't it?! Anderson builds a darn nice guitar.

I tried a couple of mods on various guitars , new pups in my Fender Strat, different pg's, but I normally find myself returning to the original setup, which was probably why I bought that particular guitar in the 1st place... although I kept the Leo Sounds in the strat.

I certainly can't afford high end acoustics, I have a Martin and that'll have to do! Its a really nice guitar so I'm happy. I've played a few custom shop builds and a really beautify LSL guitar (logo remind you of anything???) but they're way out of budget................ maybe once my business takes off I'll treat myself!

john

John - You're not the only guy who modded a guitar and went back to the original set up. I can't tell you how many times I've done that!

Martin makes a fine acoustic. The one thing we all have to keep in mind, we all sound like ourselves no matter what guitar we put in our hands. (I can't tell you how disappointing that is for me!) You can drive a nail with a claw hammer, pipe wrench, and even a shovel. The nail still gets driven in the wood. It's just a tool!

Good luck with the business!

What's my story?, Well I don't drink fancy beer and wear a skirt like GW, I don't pee my pants as often as you do, I don't have a million sets of strings laying around like Duce and I sure as hell don't have Jay's kind of money, 33 Thortons!!!!!!!!!

Every picture tells a story story.



Boutique is not in my budjet, I'm all for tone on the cheap, that's where the old G&Ls come in, I've played some high end guitars at shops and still none compare to my old 500




As far as acoustics go I'll put this one up against all commers

HEY DUCK!

What's my story?, Well I don't drink fancy beer and wear a skirt like GW, I don't pee my pants as often as you do, I don't have a million sets of strings laying around like Duce and I sure as hell don't have Jay's kind of money, 33 Thortons!!!!!!!!!

Nobody wears a skirt like gw, but don't piss him off. He'll throw on the battle kilt and start kicking arse.

[quote="westsideduck"]Every picture tells a story story.[/color]
One of my all time favorites.


[quote="westsideduck"]Boutique is not in my budjet, I'm all for tone on the cheap, that's where the old G&Ls come in, I've played some high end guitars at shops and still none compare to my old 500
As far as acoustics go I'll put this one up against all commers[/color]
You've got some sweet, old guitars. That S500 looks great, and there's nothing like a well played acoustic. I bet that has really opened up!

Do you still have the "3 Faces of Marriage" figurine? The Jammin' Cabin must be in full swing by now, isn't it?

Thanks for checking in!
Brian

over 2k, the quality difference really becomes visual in my opinion.

My thoughts exactly. I have a cheap acoustic that is made from mahogany. It sounds nice enough for me. If I owned a high end recording studio I might invest in a bootiki acoustic.

I remember those CP Thornton guitars from when Jay hosted the LRs a year (or more?) ago. Beautiful looking instruments. It would be nice to be rich enough to afford one of them.

I didn't have a problem with G&Ls neck joints until I recently played my dads Fender deluxe Strat. It has a bit of the heel shaved away and it makes it incredibly easy to get to the top frets.

Good luck with the business!.. thanks Ches
heres a link if you are interested...........
http://oneeyedognews.wordpress.com/about/
john

oh..................... careful with the skirt talk

over 2k, the quality difference really becomes visual in my opinion.

My thoughts exactly. I have a cheap acoustic that is made from mahogany. It sounds nice enough for me. If I owned a high end recording studio I might invest in a bootiki acoustic.

I remember those CP Thornton guitars from when Jay hosted the LRs a year (or more?) ago. Beautiful looking instruments. It would be nice to be rich enough to afford one of them.

I didn't have a problem with G&Ls neck joints until I recently played my dads Fender deluxe Strat. It has a bit of the heel shaved away and it makes it incredibly easy to get to the top frets.

Old acoustic guitars sound fantastic, don't they? The wood just comes alive as it gets older. As for the high end gear, we still sound like ourselves - doesn't matter if we spend $500 or $5,000 on a guitar. It's just a matter of finding something that inspires each of us to play more, and to try to get better.

The American Deluxe neck joint is nice, isn't it? That slight shaving of the corner makes it feel a lot different.

Good luck with the business!.. thanks Ches
heres a link if you are interested...........
http://oneeyedognews.wordpress.com/about/
john

oh..................... careful with the skirt talk

Pretty cool! We don't have a problem rehearsing in our homes where I live, but I guess in the larger cities, renting rehearsal space is a daily thing. I hope you do well with it!

I tread lightly when to comes to kilt wearin' warriors, especially since there's a bit of Scot and Irish in my blood!

Good luck with the business!.. thanks Ches
heres a link if you are interested...........
http://oneeyedognews.wordpress.com/about/
john

oh..................... careful with the skirt talk

i heard scotsman wear skirts because that's all that was left, since the woman wear the pants in scotland

So, what’s your story? What makes you, you? Ever shot yourself in the hand with a nail gun? C’mon, give it up! Here’s your chance! Tell us your story!

Glad you survived the heart attack! (Of course I was kidding about the diet.) And congrats on the kiddos and grandie! Since last we argued... I mean communicated ( ), life has been pretty status quo for me. 12 hour work days (including commute time) , 30+ gigs a year with the band (doesn't leave many free weekends), and I got back into shooting photos (I've got a blog with over 450 posts of my images done over the past two years). BUT... On May 1st I gave notice at my job! Been there 15 years and May 31st is my last day! No more commuting!! And I became a Canadian citizen in 2010--got my passport last November. So... besides living in Canada being in our future, my wife and I are about to buy a Big Ass Van (a Mercedes Sprinter conversion van with a lot of bells and whistles) and hit the road for a year or so. The band will continue (though there will be less rehearsals!). We've got some tours lined up into the fall and are working on touring as the main band thing rather than the once a year fling. Anyway, getting older sometimes has it's benefits!

One of the best parts about the old GbL was the knowledge that hung around on a daily basis. I know there are some very knowledgeable guys here today, but I really enjoyed seeing posts from guys like Greg Gagliano, Tim Page, and Gabe Dellevigne. They could really get into the history of G&L - really dig deep. I know Tim is fairly active here and we’re fortunate to have his expertise. Tim’s relationship with George Fullerton was a real blessing, and he was a great source for interesting information.

Yes. And Gabe and Greg were definitely "go to" guys for all things technically and historically G&L.

Boo-teek guitars. Electric or acoustic...

The BEST guitar purchase I ever made was when I bought my 1994 Lowden D-32. I LOVE MY LOWDEN! I love it so much I bought it a $1000 custom Calton case. I still have my Larrivees, but, alas, they just don't cut it compared to the Lowden. And I haven't babied it. It was pristine when I bought it used back in 2008, but it ain't anymore. Lots of mojo on it from hard gigging. This is what it looked like not long after I bought it. It now sports a tortoise pick guard to prevent me from wearing through the top. (The sound was in no way affected by the addition of the guard.)



--GDub

What's my story?, Well I don't drink fancy beer and wear a skirt like GW, I don't pee my pants as often as you do, I don't have a million sets of strings laying around like Duce and I sure as hell don't have Jay's kind of money, 33 Thortons!!!!!!!!!

Every picture tells a story story.

Aye Lad! And it's NOT A SHIRT--IT'S A KILT! (Still an all time fave G&LDPer photo!)

What's up Duck! Hope you and yours are well. How's your garden growing? Mine is half ass this year but for a reason--if you read my reply to Ches you'll know why.

Sláinte!

--gw

Last edited by GDub on Tue May 22, 2012 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And GW, the gardens doing great! with the warm month of march the garlic is killer.

Glad you survived the heart attack! (Of course I was kidding about the diet.) And congrats on the kiddos and grandie! Since last we argued... I mean communicated ( ), life has been pretty status quo for me. 12 hour work days (including commute time) , 30+ gigs a year with the band (doesn't leave many free weekends), and I got back into shooting photos (I've got a blog with over 450 posts of my images done over the past two years). BUT... On May 1st I gave notice at my job! Been there 15 years and May 31st is my last day! No more commuting!! And I became a Canadian citizen in 2010--got my passport last November. So... besides living in Canada being in our future, my wife and I are about to buy a Big Ass Van (a Mercedes Sprinter conversion van with a lot of bells and whistles) and hit the road for a year or so. The band will continue (though there will be less rehearsals!). We've got some tours lined up into the fall and are working on touring as the main band thing rather than the once a year fling. Anyway, getting older sometimes has it's benefits!

That heart attack was more like a warning shot across the bow, not a widowmaker, but thanks. I'm kinda glad about sticking around, too! (and yes, I knew you were kidding!)

Looks like you're heading into an interesting phase, and I bet it'll be a blast taking the Maggies on the road! So I assume this will replace the fantastic vacations you two always took?

The BEST guitar purchase I ever made was when I bought my 1994 Lowden D-32. I LOVE MY LOWDEN! I love it so much I bought it a $1000 custom Calton case. I still have my Larrivees, but, alas, they just don't cut it compared to the Lowden. And I haven't babied it. It was pristine when I bought it used back in 2008, but it ain't anymore. Lots of mojo on it from hard gigging. This is what it looked like not long after I bought it. It now sports a tortoise pick guard to prevent me from wearing through the top. (The sound was in no way affected by the addition of the guard.)

I remember when you bought the Lowden. Very nice.

Now I wish I could remember what I called the 4 phases!