Lunch report: Wednesday 25th May 2011

Lunch: The search for the ‘perfect’ sandwich goes on. Today, I thought I would run an experiment based on themes from this weeks discussion. I linked the search for the perfect sandwich with the perfect dunking biscuit and decided to have, a perfect dunking sandwich (as I am a fusion kind of guy). So it was a bacon (obviously), mushroom and cheese Panini. This was dunked in a typically awful cup of UK instant coffee. Bliss…..There were some casualties at the bottom of the cup but that’s just the way I like it…it’s a bit like finding £5 in your suit that’s been in the closet for weeks….

I cannot confirm or deny if the casualties were part of my lunch as well…..
Tomorrow – I go in search of TimTams or as was said yesterday, the ‘Penguin’ biscuit which might be the UK equivalent.

G&L topic: To my mind G&L Asats and Legacy’s are amongst the finest instruments one can buy. They seem better built than most, and have bags more tone than anything I’ve played ‘off-the-shelf’ from the main rival brands. This might be due to the fact that these guitars were what Leo did best. He and George knew these formats and improved them to within and inch of the guitars life. It was probably like coming home when Leo decide to revisit the strat and tele with G&L. One thing I am not so sure about, and hear very little about around here is the Invader guitar. I suppose it’s a kind of ‘super strat’ and aimed at that market (i.e., Ibanez, Kramer, Jackson, Charvel, BC Rich – though please correct me if you think I am wrong). I hear little about G&L Invader guitars on here – so does anyone out there have one, has anyone played one, and what do you think about these guitars? What defines them? What's the vibe?

Also, have you customised your G&L in any way that you feel the rest of us should know about as it may be something we should consider if we buy the same model as you and want to play similar music? Do you play a certain sort of music that requires a certain sort of tweak? Except for this forum, I rarely read about people changing the pickups in G&L – probably because the MFDs and improved alinico’s are very good as standard (though i know nothing about the pups in the other models). However, many of you have very specific tastes that you have developed over time – so do you rip out the standard pups as a matter of course and if so, for what replacement and what does that give you in terms of tone? Differing wiring circuits? Mid boost?

nonG&L topic (i): re-discovered albums you have long forgotten. You know the feeling. Years ago you bought an album – loved it – played it for weeks – then moved on. But now, more recently you have re-discovered it and it feels new and exciting again. Why did I forget about this? - you may ask yourself. But now, you also listen to it with more mature ears and perhaps even more from the perspective of playing the songs as well. Any suggestions out there for an album you feel, we all need to re-discover, to help make us all better players and more appreciative of the range of music that is out there. An album you feel we all need to hear? Fav tracks on the album and why? Don’t be embarrassed – I recently rediscovered the “Beach Boys” – there is something very uplifting about the music even if it is not the sort of thing I see myself playing….. it brings back memories of summers from my youth – and that is never a bad thing. Great harmony. I have also recently re-discovered “The Smiths” and the wonderful playing of Mr Marr. If you have never heard of him check him out on youTube. A melodic style that runs underneath the vocals – kind of atmospheric in a way ….

nonG&L topic (ii) - Something new to me and something I hinted at to sirmyghin yesterday. I have a couple of friends that are classically trained musicians and they both work in schools and colleges as school music teachers (they are pianists). If you put a piece of music in front of them – they can play it note perfect in the first take. They are very talented. However, I recently suggested an informal jam to both of them and was met with a rather odd surprise that really shocked me and I did not expect it. “oh”, they both said “we can’t jam or improvise…I have to have the notes in front of me to know what to do..” they both said. What the f**k? Why can they not improvise? A long discussion ensued and it came down to how they were trained and the fact they never really had to do it so did not have those skills. They also cannot write music – just play it. Is this common? Do you know of any musician (personally) that was classically trained and simply cannot have a jam or improvisation session – yet can at the same time be very gifted musically???? They were genuinely unable to jam and it was not a musical snobbery thing (my first thought)….they were well aware of this limitation and I got the feeling others had asked them the same thing and they were quite embarrassed about it. Is this normal? Obviously this is just based on two of my friends – but their skill on the piano / keyboards is such that I would have thought a simple 12-bar blues would have been a breeze. Apparently not.

In contrast I’ve had no classical training and much prefer improvising over backing tracks rather than learning songs note-for-note (though like everyone here – I obviously do a bit of both).

I agree with you about the Invaders needing more air time. No lefties though, right? Moving on... King Crimson's "Red" album should get a re-listen.

Although I've had a few great teachers, I'm about 90% feel / 10% technique. "Comfortably Numb" by Pink Floyd has a solo that is easy to learn. Play/learn what you like; don't get trapped in rigid styles and techniques. I'd be a poor teacher...


Cheers,

Will

Invaders could use a bit more show, but I have one like them in my Carvin. I think if they wanted to take good aim at the shred market, they would need to add the last 2 frets and make the double octave. A lot of shred kiddies grief over that on guitars. I just bend up when need be. I like a good super strat, but one thing I would improve on my ASAT is the lower horn, it is a tad tight in there for my knuckles and good hand posture. I haven't upgraded the pickups on my special but it does have a new pickguard, phase switch, and 4 way switch installed now. None of these are needed parsay, but I like options.

I have only met one guy who 'couldn't jam' and once again, a pianist. They seem to be a tad more rigid in this respect when trained, likely due to training regimen, but also I would wager, the amount going on. I do a good 90% of my playing off the cuff, it is only lately I started recording what I was doing, or actively composing the reason being I just forget over time how to play the songs I did a while ago. This rather kills any chance for improvement at the moment as my ear is not good enough to pick out the chords I would typically use (fairly embellished). That is definitely my weakest link, the ear, but on a bass in a band setting it is fine. I can find the root ,3rd or 4th of most chords with ease. 4ths are nice, good fun to play around. It is more an instinctual ear, than an active one in this case.

I have been revisiting a bunch of albums lately, mostly from Rush's back catalog. Some old favourites such as Hold Your Fire and Power Windows, some less favourites but gems in 2112 and A Farewell to Kings. Would that my collection had some more old prog in it, some Yes or King Crimson, alas it does not.

Have you tried bacon with chocolate? Two of my favorite things, and they complement each other really well. Yummy! Although I can't say they would make a good sandwich.

The Invader does seem a little like G&L's red-headed stepchild (no offense to you redheads or stepchildren). I have seen some beautiful Invaders, but the "shred-vibe" probably turns some people off. I am sure they are extremely versatile guitars though if my Rampage is any indication (1 pup, 1 knob, and a whole lotta tone from mean and snarly to sweet and bluesy).

I recently rediscovered Primus, which I hadn't listened to since college 20 years ago. I picked up 3 albums (Pork Soda, Frizzle Fry and Sailing the Seas of Cheese), and I tell you these guys were making some crazy music 20 years ago that some people still might consider to be "too far out there." Talk about a power trio - Les Claypool is a freaking MONSTER on the bass and his songwriting, though weird, is so creative and fun; Tim "Herb" Alexander is a powerful machine on drums; and Larry LaLonde is one of my favorite guitar players - he perfectly complements the other 2 with his circus-like runs and off-kilter rhythms. Love it!

-Adam

It is actually very common for classically trained musicians to be tied to written music. They have never learned improvisational theory on their instrument. I know a lot of pianists that fall into this category.

To learn improvisation you have to know theory and progressions and have a basic knowledge of chord structure apart from what you see written on a page. I am all for learning to read music but not at the expense of hindering or eliminating improvisation.

I saw a good book called :" How to play piano despite years of lessons" that teaches a new way to look at the keyboard.
I highly recommend it if you are tied to music.

My Legacy is stock as they come but the tremolo is set back so as not to float. (It came that way, and it certainly suits my style but I am looking at putting it back to factory settings).

I knew a dude who played french horn at my junior college. He wasn't in the music programme but they asked him to join the orchestra because he could read like mad and had perfect technique. But the guy had no soul. There was no coloration to anything he did, no personality. He was the perfect orchestra player and I guess there's something to be said for that, especially when you're part of an ensemble.

I find the same self-effacing quality in studio musicians, event though they may be more prone to improvising. If you ever watch Letterman, you can see how skilled the players in Paul Shaeffer's World's Most Dangerous band are, but as good as they are, I find they lack defined musical personalities, but they are among the creme de la creme of the NYC session scene, so I guess that this serves them in their careers.

In general I find that the difference between virtuoso players and merely excellent players in the classical scene is not technical but emotional. The world's top classical musicians are the ones who inject personality into their playing and who can go beyond mere mechanics, whereas the ones immediately beneath are merely technically flawless and never rise to superstar status.

I find that some rock musicians tend to suffer an inferiority complex and therefore over-emphasize technicality, hence the rise of players like Vai, Satriani, and Malmsteen to "compete" with the classical players. However, outside of players' circles few consider guitarists of their ilk virtuosi and prefer to number among the masters those who best use their instrument to convey emotion mated with technique: Hendrix, Page, Prince, Van Halen, etc.

There are a number of albums that I go back to every so often and marvel at how good the whole thing is:
- Most Beatles' albums
- "Sweets From A Stranger" by Squeeze
- Any of my many Elvis Costello CDs
- The first Crowded House CD
- The first 2 Garbage releases
- Soundtrack from the movie "Sid And Nancy"

There are likely many more that I don't think of. I need to go take a look through my CD collection to really rediscover ones that deserve a fresh listening to.

I really like Johnny Marr's guitar playing. "How Soon Is Now" is one of the songs my hobby band plays, and I try to do the guitar part justice.

One of my sisters is a very good pianist having had many years of lessons. I think the way piano is taught leads to a process that goes from : Reading the written music, process it in the head, fingers and feet execute the music. It's almost like the sound is secondary. Guitar players tend more to be : hear it on a record or hear it in your head, process it in the head, fingers find the notes to play. I think the contrast between eyes-to-execution versus ear-to-execution is what leads to many pianist not being able to improvise. I have found pianists who did not learn from piano lessons tend to be able to improvise. In fact, I once met a guy who plays jazz piano and he can jump in and play wonderfully to anything you can throw at him with a chord progression.

Kit

In general I find that the difference between virtuoso players and merely excellent players in the classical scene is not technical but emotional. The world's top classical musicians are the ones who inject personality into their playing and who can go beyond mere mechanics, whereas the ones immediately beneath are merely technically flawless and never rise to superstar status.

Right on. I think you can generalize this rule for all music...but classical can be so technically demanding that it really separates those that have it from those that don't.

Great Albums? There really are so many. But a couple times a year I go through a Stones--Some Girls/Let it Bleed/Exile phase. Also I love Emmy Lou Harris's 80's Gems Midnight Moon in a Ten Cent Town and Luxury Liner--they come out once or twice a month. Oh yea, and two Chet Atkins collaborations - Neck and Neck w/ Mark Knopfler and, of course, Chester and Lester. How about a guilty pleasure hit? Jerry Rafferty City to City....

I don't have any mods that I would encourage others to do. I have a number I would recommend against! lol.

I put new pickups in my ASATs. The MFDs are really good, but the bridge pickup - for my tastes -is a little too hot and mid-rangy. That said I've come back it it several times.

I listened to Danzig for the first time in a while last week. Loving it.

Great job this week! Very interesting topics. I'm glad you brought up the Invader. I can't speak for the newer Invader's, but I have an '85 Invader that I love! I think the single coil MFD's are incredible pickup's. I can get great vintage, bluesy rock tones out of it. I enjoy using the Invader for early ZZ Top tunes, and I can nail the tone in songs like Sheik, and Heard it on the X. I also think the Invader sounds great with a little bit of a Phaser effect in it. But, like Adam said, the Rampage, and Invader are outstanding Superstrats. I would put them up against the old Charvels, Jacksons, Kramers any day of the week. They are much more than shredder guitars. Too bad that's the rap they have.

Two bands that I missed during their heyday, but discovered during the past few years is Cheap Trick and Blondie. Both bands are very underrated IMO, and they continue to make great music today.

Dave

I've never seen an Invader in the flesh so their 'vibe' is still a mystery to me. Photos of the Invader immediately conjure up associated images of Big Hair, Spandex Pants and the mid-late 80's.

I've put a Graph Tech nut on my S-500 and like what it did for tuning stability. I've also switched out the MFD pickups which I had a love/hate/love/hate relationship with. After trying a few different replacement sets the ones I left in there are a set of Legacy pickups. Maybe I should've bought a Legacy straight up . The PTB tone controls seem better calibrated to the MFD pickups though. i.e. there's a better range of tones available from the MFD's.

The last band I was in had a cello player who was invited to join because the female lead singer had a crush on him. Though he was a very good player, he had absolutely no idea WHAT to play. We had to work out his parts on a keyboard which he would then transcribe into notation. It took about 2 years to convince him that he didn't need to read his parts, and he could make up whatever he wanted as long as it sounded OK.

I've really enjoyed reading through some of great 're-discovered' albums posted earlier. Some albums that I'm re-enjoying lately are:

Radiohead - The Bends
John Mellencamp - Scarecrow (love the duelling teles on this album)
Dire Straits - Making Movies
REM - Document
Fleetwood Mac - Rumours

My current guilty pleasure is a copy of The Pretenders Greatest Hits that I found in a bargain bin. I could listen to Back On The Chain Gang all day! I was gonna say Blondie too but RampageFan beat me to it.

I've stumbled across Johnny Marr through his session work for other artists like Billy Bragg and Neil Finn/Crowded House. I like his guitar anti-hero approach of tasty playing that doesn't dominate the song.

Alright, I see we've got some Johnny Marr fans. To his tasty playing, I would add Johnny Greenwood from Radiohead. His guitar parts are usually not in your face, but effective nonetheless. Also, if you like Johnny Marr he makes an appearance on a couple of really really good songs on John Fruscaiante's album The Empyrean - which was recorded the old fashioned way to tape (yes, actual tape) and sounds LUSH.

BTW, I have not made a single modification to my G&L's but I have been thinking about changing the bridge pup on my Legacy. They are rock solid guitars right out of the box and I love that because I am too lazy to mod anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh3bleXWaCk&feature=youtu.be

- ed

I've been listening to Buckingham-Nicks era Fleetwood Mac, and my favorite jazz by keyboardist Neil Larson with Buzz Feiten on guitar. "Jungle Fever" and "High Gear"--highly recommended if you like Latin-flavored jazz instrumentals with some smokin' guitar work.


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The Invaders are very, very good. If I could get one with a DF Vibrato and PTB, it would be a total no-brainer for me. I really like the more vintage vibrato over a Floyd rose, and PTB is a must for me. I almost bought a Transparent Blue Hardtail Invader a few years ago, and I'm still kicking myself over that one.


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I've not done much in mods to any of my G&Ls. From the viewpoint of a old Strat player, the Legacy already comes from the factory with the best mods. I did buy a Transparent Blond Legacy that came with Duncan Antiquity Texas Hots. I did take out the middle and bridge pickup and replaced them with a Texas Hot Antiquity RW/RP middle pickup and the Custom hot bridge Antiquity. That is a sweet guitar--still sounds like a Legacy, but it is thick and rich. The Antiquitys have less top end spank, and a much more complex mid-range--like a fine red wine that't been aged for years.

I'm pretty sure the frets have been replaced on this guitar--they seem bigger than standard. And I replaced all of the hardware, except the Vibrato assembly, with gold-plated screws, machine heads, and jack plate--all to give it more of a "Mary Kaye" strat look.

I have two more sets of Antiquitys to put into a pair of my Legacys, but I really do like the stock pickups.


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I hear you about the lack of improvising skills among keyboards. My keyboardist is almost the opposite, though. She has a great ear, not so good at reading. Hears vocal harmonies instantly. Sandy and Don (her bassist hubby) have really been a joy to work with.

The bottom line for musicians is that you need to have broad skills in this biz to survive. You need to have basic social and interpersonal skills, and you need to have a professional attitude and good work-place skills. Be on time. And don't show up at your gig gassed or high.

I don't care how good your improvising skills are, if you can't read musical notation, you'll never get the great studio gigs. And I'm talking SIGHT-READING, GET IT RIGHT IN ONE TAKE, UNDER PRESSURE--CAUSE TIME IS MONEY!!!! Not everyone can write music, that's a whole different skill set; but it sure wouldn't hurt to learn. You need to know basic music theory. And you might find yourself working without notation--just a numbered Nashville-style chart, so you'd better know what the 6minor chord is in B flat.

You need to be able to read Tab; and you need to have a good ear for progressions and changes. You need to know how to get the best tone from your rig; and what tones are appropriate for various genres. You need to have a basic knowledge of recording techniques, electricity, effects and acoustics. You need to be able to maintain your instruments and your gear--even to point of making on-the-spot repairs when needed.

Oh, and you need to able to hear that your guitar is out of tune, and be able to tune it. (Trust me, it helps!!! LOL!)

Bill

I recently rediscovered the “Beach Boys” – there is something very uplifting about the music even if it is not the sort of thing I see myself playing….. .

If you haven't heard SMiLE (abandoned Beach Boys project), do so! It rules so hard! SMiLE is my ears' BBF!

Seriously, it's awesome. It is typically difficult to get ambitious projects out the door, musical or otherwise. In the case of SMiLE, it took about 40 years. But when it did finally ship, OMG! To think this work was almost complete before Sgt. Peppers. Amazing. Brian Wilson didn't get the support he needed to ship at that time. What a shame.

SMiLE RULES!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_%28B ... n_album%29

-Brock

I recently rediscovered the “Beach Boys” – there is something very uplifting about the music even if it is not the sort of thing I see myself playing….. .

If you haven't heard SMiLE (abandoned Beach Boys project), do so! It rules so hard! SMiLE is my ears' BBF!

Seriously, it's awesome. It is typically difficult to get ambitious projects out the door, musical or otherwise. In the case of SMiLE, it took about 40 years. But when it did finally ship, OMG! To think this work was almost complete before Sgt. Peppers. Amazing. Brian Wilson didn't get the support he needed to ship at that time. What a shame.

SMiLE RULES!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_%28B ... n_album%29

-Brock

Despite cheesy pop lyrics the Beach boys were very much at the forefront of new music and musical ideas, I would attribute this one more to May's instabilities at the time than lack of support however. He was pretty much off the deep end by that point. He supposedly was unhappy with it and destroyed a lot of the demos at the time.

Despite cheesy pop lyrics the Beach boys were very much at the forefront of new music and musical ideas,

With SMiLE, Van Dyke Parks shores up the regular pop lyrics issue. The modular arrangement by Brian Wilson is pure genius, and certainly falls under the "forefront" category. SMiLE rules!

I'm going to have to give Smile a listen. You've been raving about it for so long now Brock, there MUST be something to it. (Could be a Rickshaw; could be a Tricycle) Ha! - ed


Bill - Your participation this week has really been amazing. What are YOU having for lunch lately? I'd like to try whatever it is!