Lunch report: Monday 23rd May 2011.

Lunch report Monday 23rd May 2011


Hi all

I have the honour of being the lunch reporter for this week. So I thought I would start off with 'baby steps' and we will build into meatier topics as the week progresses.....

Lunch: Lunch today was a rushed BLT sandwich – grabbed on the fly between meetings and giving a revision lecture to my nervous final-year students. Unlike the joke – the ‘B’ did not stand for ‘bread’ and thankfully it was not suitable for vegetarians (no offence meant to vegetarians). It was washed down with a nice bottle of water. Not the healthiest lunch – but a good sandwich can be hard to find these days…..


G&L topic: My recently purchased spalted maple Legacy arrived last week and, quite simply, it is a stunning instrument. It not only looks beautiful (photos to follow soon), but it plays like a dream. What struck me immediately was the quality of the finish on the guitar and – most importantly – the playability of the neck. The neck is so comfortable and easy to play. I’m not a long time player by any stretch, but the neck is the best I’ve ever played (and I’ve played custom-shop from you-know-who). I took it to my guitar teacher (who is a pro musician as well as a teacher) and he agreed about the neck – absolutely stunning. I have not even mentioned the tone yet.

Anyway, my point for discussion is – has there been a ‘glory period’ for G&L? I mean, a period where, in your opinion, the guitars peaked or an era that you feel things really came together for G&L. To my mind it could well be now – as these instruments are stunning – but I have no reference point from history. The new PLEK machine at the factory may well be one reason we could be entering a new ear for G&L – or maybe you disagree and think the days of the very best instruments are behind us? To my mind, you have to change in order to progress, but then, not all change is progression...thoughts?

I heard F**der had a period in the 1980s where the Japanese instruments were described as being better than the USA ones and as a consequence are now highly sort after. Although, not quite the same issue as with G&L the principal of an ‘era’ from which to have an instrument still stands.


nonG&L topic: Are you a self-taught player, and if so why? Did you learn ‘back in the day’ when teachers were few and far between? Have you had any form of lessons and if so, how structured were they? Did you take lessons for a long period of time, a short period of time, or have you always felt them to be unnecessary? Did you start to learn as a kid or an adult?

I only really seriously started to learn when I was 37 years old (or so) and my teacher has a different approach to teaching adults than he does with kids – partly due to the fact adults (often being married and having a job, family etc) do not have the time to practice scales for hours and hours – before learning their favourite songs or whatever. If you had or have a teacher – what is your experience of it? If you have never had a teacher – would you consider going to one to brush up on some aspect of your playing? Do you think that the reason many people become guitar teachers – is because they are not good musicians? (not a view I share, but I would be interested in your thoughts). Do you teach and if so - what is your approach? Does the thought of teaching scare you half to death or bore the socks off you?

DR B, thanks for stepping up this week, it is also different to sign on in the morning and see that someone has already had lunch. Greetings to the UK

I have three recent G&Ls and they are all exactly as you describe. I believe the build quality has never been better.

Golden era for G&L, I'm not sure and I think you will get different answers on this. I have had none older than 1999.

I am a self taught musician on guitar. If I could find a teacher who could teach me to finger pick like Chet, I would sign on!

Great start!-- Darwin

BLT- That sounds like a nice sandwich. I wish I had one. I am going to make a banana do for lunch.

Golden era for G&L: the early Leo era years are a very special time for the company and they made certain bass instruments that hold a special place in my bass arsenal. Actually no other basses that I own can quite do what they do. These are the L1000, L-2000 and SB2 basses.

In modern times I think the golden era of G&L may be right now.
You have ownership that cares about the product. They have introduced new technology that improves the quality with the new neck/truss rod design and the Plek machine being used on every instrument. I think the finishes G&L has are second to none. I would have no reservation in buying a G&L bass "off the rack" and taking it out to a gig.

Teaching Guitar and Bass: I started out taking lessons from a great teacher when I was 15 years old. The lessons helped me immeasurably, but what also helped me is that I started playing in a band within 6 months and I have continued with some band association for the remainder of my career.

I started teaching when my teacher asked me to sub for him during an extended hospital stay he had and I took over teaching his bass students for 6 months in 1973 when I was 19. I then started teaching on my own just to supplement my income.

I teach adults very differently from young students due to the lack of time factor that most adults are dealing with.
I go straight to usable info that gets adults playing ASAP.

Nice start Dr B.
-bassman

I havent played an older G&L but I have a 2008, late 2009 and a new 2011 and the quality on all of them is exceptional. The latest has the best build right out of the case. Outstanding and couldnt be happier. All 3 necks are perfect.

So, for me, G&L time is now, and I hope it just keeps getting better.



I started playing guitar at age 50, got a few lessons from a teacher at the local music store, nice guy, but...........

So I tried it on my own and quickly was playing the same stuff every day and wasn't learning anything new. I did my homework and found a great teacher that I go to every 2 weeks for an hour. He's awesome. Gives me a new song to learn every lesson, some I love, some I hate (too hard for me) but every 2 weeks its something new with different techniques and that gets me playing and practicing. I thought I wasn't getting much better until I went back and tried to play the stuff he gave me a few years ago, fairly easy now.

Mostly he's giving me grade 4-5 stuff and I am really enjoying it.

Without him, I probably would have given up by now. Guitar is hard man!

Hey Dr. B that blt does sound good, I had roast beef on marble rye and some Italian wedding soup

Golden era: I haven't played too many G&L's but I do own a 1990 and a 2006 ASAT very small sampling but there are things I like about each one, I wouldn't say one is better than the other though. The '90 has a smoother/more vintage-y tone to it, but that could be attributed to the pickups being hand wound, have less windings and I'm sure time has degaussed the magnets a bit. I really prefer the more modern neck profile on the '06. As far as construction goes, both have very tight neck pockets, it's hard to compare a 21 year old guitar to a 5 year old one but the finishes are both good. The '90 is transparent and it has a nice wood grain. The electronics are a little neater in the '90 compared to '06 but in more recent pictures it looks like they have cleaned it up a bit and the cloth wiring is a nice touch. Still haven't tried any of the new pleked/post bi-cut guitars.

Guitar Teachers: I'm a little bit of both, started out with lessons when I was about 14, switched guitar teachers 3-4 times, by sophomore year of high school I had given up and was just playing in bands with friends and I was lucky enough to have "instrumental workshop" as an elective art credit. I thought about teaching at one point but in reality I'm not all that technical with my guitar playing, as with a lot of things, I know how to do it but explaining it to someone in the proper technical terms doesn't always come out right. My best analogy is that I play guitar like I drive... by landmark rather than route numbers.

-Dave

DR B, thanks for stepping up this week, it is also different to sign on in the morning and see that someone has already had lunch. Greetings to the UK

Thanks for the support Darwin! It is much appreciated. I should be able to put posts up around 11;00am - 12:30pm UK time for the lunch reports - so I am delighted you enjoy seeing them in the morning (your time).

I have three recent G&Ls and they are all exactly as you describe. I believe the build quality has never been better.

Thanks for that - my gut feeling is that perhaps - right now is the golden age (not that there was ever a dark age of course).

I am a self taught musician on guitar. If I could find a teacher who could teach me to finger pick like Chet, I would sign on!
Great start!-- Darwin

Thanks man! I am sure there are teachers out there - but if you are already very experienced and have the solid foundation there - I guess its more a case of more practice than actual structured lessons. I always think self-taught chaps like yourself are a very talented bunch with obvious natural timing for music.

I sometimes struggle to get my fingers to do what those blues legends are doing when I slow the music down and try to nail the licks...I'm getting better at it, but its slow going.

BLT- That sounds like a nice sandwich. I wish I had one. I am going to make a banana do for lunch.

Hi Bassman and thank you for the support. It was indeed a nice sandwich, I hope your banana was fulfilling?

Golden era for G&L: the early Leo era years are a very special time for the company and they made certain bass instruments that hold a special place in my bass arsenal. Actually no other basses that I own can quite do what they do. These are the L1000, L-2000 and SB2 basses. In modern times I think the golden era of G&L may be right now.

I think we need to hear more about G&L basses as I would be interested in how you rank them compared to the rivals. I think most around here are lead players - so it was nice to hear your perspective. You say that the G&L bass can do more, do you mean tone, resonance, attitude, bite? I agree with you that I think G&Ls are as good as they have ever been (though as I said in the OP - i had no reference point).

Teaching Guitar and Bass: I started out taking lessons from a great teacher when I was 15 years old. The lessons helped me immeasurably, but what also helped me is that I started playing in a band within 6 months and I have continued with some band association for the remainder of my career. I started teaching when my teacher asked me to sub for him during an extended hospital stay he had and I took over teaching his bass students for 6 months in 1973 when I was 19. I then started teaching on my own just to supplement my income. I teach adults very differently from young students due to the lack of time factor that most adults are dealing with. I go straight to usable info that gets adults playing ASAP.

My teacher has been ecouraging me to join a band - and he says its the very best way to develop as a musician. I jam to backing tracks and stuff like that (i've got one of those Boss E-band things) - which is cool, but not really the same thing. I love to Jam with him during lessons and as long as I know what key / scales to use - I'm off in my own zone havin a blast. I suffer from the beginners curse of trying to play too much and fill all the spaces with licks. I need to learn to leave spaces more.... Your approach to teaching seems the same as my teachers. I can tell you that as a pupil I find it very rewarding and I am sure your more mature students really appreciate it.

Nice start Dr B.
-bassman

Cheers man, I was worried no one would be interested in the ramblings of a newbie to guitar like me.....

I havent played an older G&L but I have a 2008, late 2009 and a new 2011 and the quality on all of them is exceptional. The latest has the best build right out of the case. Outstanding and couldnt be happier. All 3 necks are perfect. So, for me, G&L time is now, and I hope it just keeps getting better.

Cheers for your thoughts astutzmann. It seems to be the growing consensus (at least in this thread) that the current G&Ls are about as good as they have ever been, if not better. Makes me want to buy another one - but my wife would almost certainly leave me....

I started playing guitar at age 50, got a few lessons from a teacher at the local music store, nice guy, but...........
So I tried it on my own and quickly was playing the same stuff every day and wasn't learning anything new. I did my homework and found a great teacher that I go to every 2 weeks for an hour. He's awesome. Gives me a new song to learn every lesson, some I love, some I hate (too hard for me) but every 2 weeks its something new with different techniques and that gets me playing and practicing. I thought I wasn't getting much better until I went back and tried to play the stuff he gave me a few years ago, fairly easy now.

Hey man, sounds similar to my situation in that, I try and take a lesson every two weeks - though for me its not so much a song every time. In fact, my approach is slightly different in that I may learn bits of riffs, solos, etc to see what ideas it gives me. I do more jamming with the teacher than learning note for note what others have done. I am still learning "The stumble" (Peter green version) and have been trying to get that down for a coupled of months now. Its jammed packed with licks and tricks and the phrasing is tricky to get just right (not technically difficult - just got to be carfeul not over or under do the bits that make it feel really bluesy. I also struggle to remember all the licks as many of them are small variations of a theme and I often get lost as to which version I am playing in which bar. I am about 5/7s of the way through now committed to memory. I'm enjoying it and in no rush....

Without him, I probably would have given up by now. Guitar is hard man!

I know that feeling man.....

oopps

Last edited by Dr B on Mon May 23, 2011 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hey Dr. B that blt does sound good, I had roast beef on marble rye and some Italian wedding soup

Sounds better than mine man. I am in search of the perfect sandwich - i may find it this week.

Golden era: I haven't played too many G&L's but I do own a 1990 and a 2006 ASAT very small sampling but there are things I like about each one, I wouldn't say one is better than the other though. The '90 has a smoother/more vintage-y tone to it, but that could be attributed to the pickups being hand wound, have less windings and I'm sure time has degaussed the magnets a bit. I really prefer the more modern neck profile on the '06. As far as construction goes, both have very tight neck pockets, it's hard to compare a 21 year old guitar to a 5 year old one but the finishes are both good. The '90 is transparent and it has a nice wood grain. The electronics are a little neater in the '90 compared to '06 but in more recent pictures it looks like they have cleaned it up a bit and the cloth wiring is a nice touch.

Thanks for the reference point to older G&Ls. It seems like the quality these days is as good as it gets.

Guitar Teachers: I'm a little bit of both, started out with lessons when I was about 14, switched guitar teachers 3-4 times, by sophomore year of high school I had given up and was just playing in bands with friends and I was lucky enough to have "instrumental workshop" as an elective art credit. I thought about teaching at one point but in reality I'm not all that technical with my guitar playing, as with a lot of things, I know how to do it but explaining it to someone in the proper technical terms doesn't always come out right. My best analogy is that I play guitar like I drive... by landmark rather than route numbers.
-Dave

I would not worry about technique and teaching my friend, a tip or piece of advice from someone more experienced is just that. Its up to the student to ensure their technique is sufficient for them - but listening to more experienced players passing on knowledge, even informally, is a great way to learn. I know in interviews people like Dave Gilmour refer to themselves as having no real technique - just feel (which is perhaps the most important of techniques).

You can't teach feel.....

Good questions Doc.

I have only had 2 official Leo era instruments (guitars) in my life and I still have one, an F-100. I think that Leo era stuff can be special, and very unique. However, I feel like G&L is making amazing instruments right now, and from everything I can see and gather from others their efforts are very consistent.

Lessons, I haven't taken them. I think your teacher is on to something, though. Make the music fun! Having said that, I don't think you can really create without having some reference system...ie scales...so at some point I think a player is stuck doing some scale work. I find playing scales critical to the development and maintenance of my ear and I enjoy it, but it don't do it like my brother did when we was studying violin lessons as a kid--four hours after school with a metronome.

Jeremy

Good morning Dr. BLT. I'm enjoying kaya toast this morning. That's Malaysian coconut jam (jelly to you Americans) to the uninitiated. It's fattening as can be but it sure is tasty.

I have an older G&L, a '97, which is a lovely guitar. It is different to the two newer ones I have - the saddles are aluminium or steel and the string ferrule block is also made from metal, as opposed to plastic. These two factors play a big part in the overall sound. It's also a very lightweight body, where the newer ones most certainly aren't. I don't think it's any better than the newer ones - the fit and finish on every US G&L I've played has been excellent.

I'm also self taught. I took a handful of lessons when I was 14, but that was the last time. I've been wanting to play jazz for quite a while now, and will have to go to a teacher for that. I certainly don't think that teachers teach because they can't play well! Most of them would be out gigging on weekends.

I used to get asked for banjo lessons quite frequently when I was playing it in a band, and only said yes once, when a friends kid asked me. I gave that up because it was so frustrating - the li'l bastard never practiced so we'd do the same thing over and over and over. I think he just wanted to hang out really, and talk about play-station games, which we'd play after the lesson. I didn't charge him, instead after the lessons and play-station we'd have dinner, then once the kid was in bed, beers and cigarettes. Good times.

hey Dr B, in my humble opinion... bacon makes everything better. good sandwich choice even if it's rushed. great start to the week.

Although I think Leo era G&Ls are great and I would love one, modern G&Ls seem like they are made just the way Leo would have wanted and with all the options that have been released in the last couple of months, stainless steel frets, quartersawn necks, two different vintage tints and the new finishes it makes me excited to see what G&L will do next.

I am a bit self taught but much of what I learned I learned from a friend of mine, we are actually both on the same worship team at church so I guess he is still teaching me I am actually looking at taking some music courses so it wouldn't be the worse thing in the world if I learned to be a guitar teacher.

G&L as far as I can tell is pretty consistant, no comments on a golden era. Neck shape however, is a personal preference hence why companies offer more than 1 if they are really in the game.

I taught myself to play bass at 14, more than 10 years gone. I played sax in big band, and taught myself guitar starting at 16. Nowadays I mostly brush my theory up to snuff as I have the chops, and I want more understanding. Lessons didn't exist where I was from, not by anyone reputable anyway, we didn't even have a music store. Consequently I am also very good at setting up my instruments, an invaluable skill a lot of players that haven't been aorund or without enough tend to overlook. I would love to find a teacher for that side of music, to teach me things like harmony and voice leading. I could definitely use with expanding that side of things. Teachers never hurt anything, and you can learn a lot faster through them. They can also help iron out and be a second set of eyes on your technique, which may be much sloppier than you know.

I see a lot of teachers my age or younger, and those are the ones I take as suspect, I often probe them pretty hard and some just dissappear/drop out of contact. They are generally only teaching technique, and nothing of substance. A lot of teachers I have encounterred are also the nefarious cover band heros (another aspect, not the first guys in this case), they are also not decidedly great musicians. Overall a player plays music, a musician writes/creates music, there is a profound difference. Most teachers, are guitar players. There is near nothing I can learn from a player.

Morning Dr. B. Thanks for jumping in this week.

Morning tea today is a nice cuppa tea - white, one sugar and followed by an infamous Tim Tam biscuit.

G&L Question: Not much more to add to the previous posts really. I think NOW is possibly G&L's golden age, with all the different options, outstanding build quality and PLEK set up.

Re. the Japanese F*nders, I have an '85 MIJ stratocaster that is indeed a beautiful instrument (especially the neck). It is just about the most authentic '62 reissue you would find. But is it better than a modern G&L Legacy, or even MIA standard Strat? I don't think so. It was probably better than most factory produced instruments in the 80's, but quality has caught up and even the notoriously hit-and-miss USA F*nders are very good guitars nowadays.

Non G&L question: I think lessons have their place, especially if there is a specific style/technique you want to learn and you have a good teacher available. But just as important is developing your own style. A teacher can't really do that for you. Another skill often overlooked by teachers is the ability to listen critically to what you are playing in the context of what other band members are playing. That is musicianship. There's no better (or fun) way to learn musicianship than being in a band! Recording band rehearsals and listening to them can really focus the microscope on how musical your playing is. A lot of the best players often have a pretty basic technique, but very high levels of musicianship developed through years and years of experience. These players can subtly adjust the way they play to convey the maximum feeling. A good example would be BB King. There is more emotional information in one of BB's notes than in most shredder's careers (apologies to any shredders ).

Hey Dr B,

Being a holiday over here in Canada, today's lunch was BBQ'd hotdogs on the back of the boat for the first time this season

G&L topic,
I have a 93', 99', 03', 06', and 06' 25th Anniversary, all of which are top notch. I am waiting on my 11' but would imagine it will be of the same brilliant quality. I have played some of the new ones at the local dealer and they certainly feel every bit as good as they ever have - I think getting a dud from any year would be extremely rare.

Non G&L,
I figured i better chime in on this one since i have made my living for the last 15 years as a full time guitar instructor. I starting taking lessons when i was 10 and continued to play throughout high school, probably going through 4 or 5 different teachers ( they would move or stop teaching etc,etc) I then attended G.I.T in California and have been pretty much teaching ever since. I have had the fortune of being taught by some of the best instructors in the world, and I have tried to incorporate what i have learned from them into my teaching. The approach - Have a student feel like they have accomplished something. Period. Whether it is as simple as the first E chord or nailing the changes on a mode switch for the first time. I really try to break things down to make the guitar feel manageable rather than overwhelming.

It sounds like you have a great teacher, i know all to well that there are a lot of bad ones out there - a lot of times i have to pick up the scatter pieces to help students reach that next level. But when i started i also learned how to play form a guy who, in hindsight, really wasn't a great teacher at all... but he showed me just enough to have some fun with the guitar and really at the end of the day if you are not having fun with it then there really is no point - from the students or teachers perspective.

Scott

Nice start Dr. B!

Crazy day for me. The family had to go to court this afternoon to finalize the adoption of our foster kid. There was no time for lunch beforehand, but we went to a deli afterward to celebrate, and I had half of a great sandwich (the other half being saved for a late night snack or for lunch tomorrow). How does this sound?: Corned beef, turkey breast, chopped chicken liver, cole slaw, swiss cheese on grilled rye bread. Oh man!
Golden age question: Dunno. If there's a bad G&L guitar out there, I certainly haven't stumbled across it. Haven't tried a very new one, but I love my Leo-era guitars and basses. They feel very vintage Fender to me and have a special place in my heart. But are they better than my BBE-era Bluesboy? Nope. Just different. I love them all. (btw, I have one Fender and it is of Japanese manufacture and I really dig that guitar - a '72 Thinline reissue. Much finer than most American of the brand I've tried over the years).
Lessons Question: I took piano lessons from 4 years of age until I was twelve. Got tired of practicing. Took up guitar a couple of years later. Had a handful of lessons from a couple of different teachers. I've never made a disciplined effort to get good at guitar and tend to play the same stuff over and over again, but it's therapeutic especially when combined with a little vodka. Sometimes I'll write a miserable little song....

Hey gitman, do you fish? If so, I'll buy a tank of gas if you'd have me join you for an afternoon. I'll bring some Brats for the grill as well!

Blarg: You got me curious about that kaya stuff. I'd like to stir some in with some crushed ice, lemonade and rum, from the sound of it. - ed

Blarg: You got me curious about that kaya stuff. I'd like to stir some in with some crushed ice, lemonade and rum, from the sound of it. - ed

I'll try that and let you know if it stays down. Hope the adoption goes smoothly for you, Ed.

I have an older G&L, a '97, which is a lovely guitar. It is different to the two newer ones I have - the saddles are aluminium or steel and the string ferrule block is also made from metal, as opposed to plastic.

When and why did G&L change from metal to plastic on the ferrule blocks on the ASAT classics?

Hey Eddie.

I think the change was made after BBE took over, so about '98. Why? I don't know. I wish they didn't. They sound better with a metal block.

Golden era for G&L: 1980-1987 (and heavily weighted towards the earlier years of that)

Why? Great original designs. The MFD pickup design. Bi-cut necks. Well made instruments. If you haven't owned a 1980-1984, you're missing out. There may be more pretty color options or delightful pickguard choices these days, but in 1984 there's more kinds of MFD pickups. My favorite G&L Bass models, the L-1000 and the first style SB-2, haven't been made in any volume in decades. There was a short run (probably under 100) of L-1000 basses made in the last 5 years, and the first-style SB-2 ended with the Lynx Bass sometime around 1992. Regular L-1000 production ended around that same time.

Unless I'm mistaken and/or things have changed in the last few years, Leo Fender has more G&L-related patents since his death issued than BBE has had on the G&L front in the almost 20 years since. There's more to the world than patent filings, but Leo Fender was still creating real new models and features. BBE has done some 'fusion' work (like the ASAT Jr. or taking the L-2000 and turning it into an L-2500), but Leo Fender has clearly been gone for a long time now.

Hey Ed,
I am not much of a fisherman, however for a tank of gas you can join me anytime - It is a 186 gallon tank! Congrats on the adoption, and you would certainly be welcome anytime - even without the gas.

Scott

Lunch was Butter Chicken with Naan and Bamati rice followed by a dessert of rice pudding at my favourite Indian place.

I'm going to have to cop-out on the golden age question as I only have one G&L and it was a recent acquisition. However mine is a 2005 pre-Plek/pre-CNC and it is the best guitar I have ever played and owned. I suppose that the Golden Age of G&L sits precisely where your favourite instrument is, and that this varies from person to person. That said, I would love to try some of the Leo-era designs/instruments and see what they are made of, but at the same time, I'm not one of those people who pines for the past or craves vintage. A well-made modern instrument gets the job done and can cost a fraction of the price of vintage (especially when you go G&L instead of the other guys custom shops.)

I took a couple of private lessons and a semester of group lessons when I started playing, but I grew quickly bored of them. After 12 weeks of playing Mary Had a Little Lamb and Michael Row the Boat Ashore, I wanted to smash my guitar out of boredom. I understand the need for fundamentals but at the same time, there has to be a better way to teach them to kids who want to rock out.

I realize that there are copyright issues involved, but would it kill somebody to come up with beginner's books that incorporate riffs and melodies that people actually want to learn? Scales and patterns and sight reading are important, but who wants to spend a year playing nursery rhymes and easy classics and being told that what they actually want to play is beyond their ken for the time being?

I mean, instead of teaching kids a mono version of Ode to Joy, why not the opening to Metallica's One? It's simple and cool and it's something that kids could share with their friends, which would make them more willing to engage in lessons.

I know a couple people who learned to play Stairway to Heaven and nothing else. It was such a big deal to learn the song, so they struggled through tabs and learned to play it. Afterward, when they wanted to learn more, they tried lessons and were given the stupid books with nursery rhymes and easy classics. When they showed their teachers that they could do Stairway, instead of being told that they would build from that, they were downgraded to Mary Had a Little Lamb and chastised for overreaching.

I think that a lot more kids would take proper lessons if the beginning curriculum was a little more relevant and a little more fun.

Hey all

@ Sickbutnottired – Many thanks for the input. I think the general consensus is that perhaps right now is the era to buy G&L which is quite a sobering thought really.

My teacher is really cool in that he will structure lessons either around things he knows I have to know and / or things I want to cover. So some lessons are scales, some tricks and licks, some ideas and theories, some songs or parts of them, and so on. Very fluid and very interesting. But yes, there is no avoiding the learning of basic scales and chords.

@blargfromouterspace – That Jam sounds good. Thanks for the suggestions on the differences between the older and newer guitars. That’s good to know. I assume if you were getting a modern bespoke build you could ask for some of those older touches – assuming G&L can still make or get the parts.

@Ahryn – yes, bacon is by far food of the gods…..as some of the comments made in this thread hint – lessons are a good thing but shop around for a good teacher. Learning the guitar is hard and it will make your head and hands hurt – but it should always be rewarding.

@sirmyghin – sounds like you have a lot of musical talent my friend learning all those instruments on your own. Impressive stuff. If you have the chops down that’s great – but a good teacher should always be able to push you into new territory. I understand the difference between teacher / player (but I think its more complicated than that). Anyway, in tomorrows LR I am going to chat a bit more about why it is some classically trained musicians – cannot Jam!!!!!! That’s for later my friend.

@ Philby – thank you for the kind words my friend.- an infamous biscuit??? Do tell….I agree about being in a band – but I have not crossed that bridge yet. It would be great to jam and create with a bunch of people that enjoy the same type of music and not too much politics and egos…I think a bunch of players all learning would be good. Any bad band experiences to share? Maybe a subject for a lunch report later in the week??? I agree about the phrasing. I’ve seen interviews by Clapton and Gilmour where they both admit to having very little ‘technique’ (which most of us probably know anyway). However, as you rightly say – it’s the feel, and you cannot buy that in bottles…

@gitman001 – your lunch sounded way more fun than everyone else’s. Hey man, your learning curve puts mine to shame. I agree about teachers (which are in effect, facilitators allowing students to reach their potential). Teachers need patience as well. The best players in the world are not necessarily the best teachers – as if something is really easy for them, they cannot understand why others ‘cant do it’. It’s the same with mathematics. The best mathematicians I know are as sharp as a knife – but cannot teach for toffee. That does not mean teachers are not good players – it just means being a good player is not enough.

Hey all


@sirmyghin – sounds like you have a lot of musical talent my friend learning all those instruments on your own. Impressive stuff. If you have the chops down that’s great – but a good teacher should always be able to push you into new territory. I understand the difference between teacher / player (but I think its more complicated than that). Anyway, in tomorrows LR I am going to chat a bit more about why it is some classically trained musicians – cannot Jam!!!!!! That’s for later my friend.

I know it, I would love a good teacher, I know a guy who might do some of the theory side with me, otherwise I haven't had much luck finding anyone I click with. I jam bass and gutiar witha jazz drummer (and we switch sides). That is always a good experience, I teach him, work through application, the whole lot. We cover a lot of genres, and one exercise is a blues based one. WE play 6 rounds on a 12 bar blues, and then change the feel, the voice, the tempo, you name it. So we might start on a pretty standard book feel, then kill the tempo, then change to jazzier full chord embellishments etc. On bass I will go from walking lines, to funk lines, to slap lines, or even tapping lines built around the chords. This is a very good exercise for both guys, as it teaches you to keep going in a variety of scenarios. Usually we would each 'solo' over 1 phrase, typically the 4th and 5th respectively. Keeps you on your toes and helps bring it all together a bit more. I have been meeting more musicians since this guy, so it will be good to get 'back in the scene a bit'. Been detached for a few years now.

@zapcosongs – hope the adoption goes well for you my friend – much cudos to you. Keep that Japanese Fender – it might be worth a few dollars…have you had it valued?

@ Brock – hey man, thanks for the comments on the early guitars. Many of us newbies don’t know enough about them – so it’s nice to hear your experience. Leo may well be gone, but he would expect innovation to continue. I think as long as G&L continue to concentrate on quality – Leo would be proud. We just need to ensure that future changes are always progressions in quality and not regressions in quality.

@CGT – that lunch sounds so good, I no longer feel bad about my bacon…..I am not one for whether the guitar was built when Leo was alive or not (as the modern ones are still equipped with many of his innovations) – but as production techniques change it is important I think to assess how this impacts on the guitars. The G&L community seems an honest and reliable source of information on this. I laughed out loud with your experience of’’mary had a little lamb’ and I agree totally with you about how mind-numbing it is.

For me, it was house of the rising sun – not a bad tune – but screw me it’s dull. Even my teacher hates teaching it – so we quickly glossed over it as we were going to kill each other. He gave me the tip to play it in E as it sounds ‘bigger’ (if memory serves me right, Em, G, A, C, Em, G, B7…..etc) on a single guitar (good for busking he said) and try just strumming it rather than single picking to get going with the chord changes – it was good advice. I agree there are some poor teachers out there. Good teachers need to move (a little) with the times and seek new avenues to teach the same principles but through new tunes (new light through old windows and all that…).

I know it, I would love a good teacher, I know a guy who might do some of the theory side with me, otherwise I haven't had much luck finding anyone I click with. I jam bass and gutiar witha jazz drummer (and we switch sides). That is always a good experience, I teach him, work through application, the whole lot. We cover a lot of genres, and one exercise is a blues based one. WE play 6 rounds on a 12 bar blues, and then change the feel, the voice, the tempo, you name it. So we might start on a pretty standard book feel, then kill the tempo, then change to jazzier full chord embellishments etc. On bass I will go from walking lines, to funk lines, to slap lines, or even tapping lines built around the chords. This is a very good exercise for both guys, as it teaches you to keep going in a variety of scenarios. Usually we would each 'solo' over 1 phrase, typically the 4th and 5th respectively. Keeps you on your toes and helps bring it all together a bit more. I have been meeting more musicians since this guy, so it will be good to get 'back in the scene a bit'. Been detached for a few years now.

Sounds really cool and a very good approach - stops you from getting stuck into a 'cul-de-sac' of basic ideas (which i think happens to all of us at times). Sometimes you need to maintain that edge and take yourself out of your comfort zone I guess. I am still a bit of a newbie to gain fully from such challenging. I am a man of basic pentatonics / blues scales at the moment and yes I have my stock licks and tricks. However, it gives me pleasure to explore just how much i can do with say six notes, and try to kee it sounding different.

I dont have your chops my friend - but maybe one day I could start to explore more uptempo rock (I like listening to it - so it seems logical). My old hands progress slowly and while i want a challenge from time to time I am conscious of being demoralized by the, at present, unattainble

Good chat

Can't let other players get you down, flip the coin and use them as something to attain, an example would be a song by Steve Morse (former Dixie Dregs, currently deep purple) called "Tumeni Notes". This one blisters with arpeggios at about 208, all eigth triplets, and he alternate picks (not sweep picks) every single note. All I can say it is it damn good technique exercise, and I will be pretty pleased if I ever can play it. It is all about finding that one tune you really want to chase, or a few (but one a time works better) and working until you get it. I find that helps a lot when I am wood shedding, sort of 1 technique at a time. Some days it is legato, others alternate picking, or on bass sometimes all tapping that day.

My chops though are nothing special, just a meager assortment of experience. The one forum I frequent deals with extended range instruments and holy crap a lot of those guys (and kids) can play. I don't really dig the style of music popular amongst them go. I subscribe more to the I practice playing really fast, so that when I play anything less it is effortless. Helps give that feeling of air when you need it. Sometimes the feeling of space in music can come from knowing what a player is capable of, then not hearing it.