Lunch Report - Friday, May 13, 2011

Where did the week go? It’s hard to believe on Monday I was a rookie lunch reporter trying to find five days’ worth of material to keep you entertained. Hopefully I didn’t overly bore you with my lengthy excursions into the culinary and musical arts.

I’m happy to announce that next week’s Lunch Reporter will be AHRYN. I am very much looking forward to his posts.

Today’s lunch was a bit of a treat, cheese and broccoli ravioli in tomato mushroom sauce served au gratin with a coating of broiled mozzarella. Actually, it took me almost as long to type that than to assemble the meal.

Gibsonless Pa
I was living at home when I got my first electric guitar, the Gibson Sonnex 180 I mentioned in yesterday’s report. A friend who bought it but who never played it sold it to me for $100, which was a pretty good deal considering it’s $300 price tag at the time. There were two issues: The top left corner headstock horn had cracked leaving exposed wood and the case was a homemade affair he’d assembled in woodshop, as opposed to a real wooden case.

I couldn’t resist such a bargain but I knew that if I asked for parental permission to bring it home, the answer would be a resounding no. So I went ahead and bought it, carried it home on the subway and bus, dreading the drama that was about to unfold.

When I stepped into the kitchen, meekly clutching the case, my mother scowled, “Is that what I think it is?”

“If you think it’s an electric guitar, then yes.” I replied, being the smartass that I was.

She turned to my father and said, “He brought home an electric guitar! Do something!”

My dad sighed and asked me to show him the guitar. I set the case on the kitchen floor at his feet and opened it. He looked down, was silent for few seconds, then looked up at me and said, “Gibson. They make good guitars,” and that was the end of that.

My mother was furious at both both of us and I was completely floored that my father knew what a Gibson was.

So, what about all you folks? What happened when you brought home that unannounced electric twanger to a spouse or parent? Have you ever been surprised that somebody knows more about guitars than you expected?

G&Lorious Tone
I’ve had my G&L since Christmas and I have since discovered that tone is a deadly addiction. When an instrument sounds so good, one naturally wants to explore and expand on its tonal abilities. I’ve tried several different rigs and am now experimenting with the Amplitube 3 Free amp + cabinet simulator routed via a USB stomp box to an Ibanez solid state amp. I’ve been getting some good results with the Fender Twin Reverb sim with the tone dialed low.

I am coming to realize just how much impact an amplifier can have on tone, and I am having a field day trying out the various combinations available to me but I always come back to a very simple set up that allows the Legacy’s tone to shine through with minimum coloration. What is your preference: Do you let the guitar speak for itself or do you color its tone with effects and amplifiers?

I realize that this is a somewhat vast question, especially for those of you who play in bands and who vary your tone to suit the song, but if you were to pick one tone combination, or a single set up that best represents what your G&L means/sounds like to you, what would it be?

Thanks for taking part in the discussions this week and have a great weekend. It’s been an honour to be your lunch reporter.

Today's video is a short animated film I made three years ago. I hope you enjoy it:

[youtube]eBLzZ-aYWgs[/youtube]

Last edited by CGT on Fri May 13, 2011 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Thanks for kicking in this week CGT, you did an excellent job and have been quite entertaining.

My first instrument was already in the house, my dads bass, untouched for years. He was more than happy to help me along, and I did get an electric once, and an amp but he was always very supportive of me playing. The wife bought me my bass (I was playing out at the time and my bass was going through worlds of trouble), as well as my C66. In turn I bought her a shiny hunk of earth poop (a diamond) and then later a new amp and a G&L. She is also very supportive, we are keeping our wedding very very small, instead of spending a lot we are each getting something we like, a nice gift. I got to build a custom 7 string and I mean custom... this thing is balling, as well as buy the wedding rings , pay for the wedding and buy her something (at least I get to buy a guitar ). The body and neck pictures should be coming my way this weekend, The fretboard is also sweet.

My amp is a Mark V (Mesa) and it is an amp tweakers dream. It has 9 different circuit architectures, and each of those has at least 1 (sometimes 2-3) voices I have discoverred a use for so far. It serves me very well when I am recorded. If you listened to that track I put up a few weeks ago 'to bloom' you can hear my ASAT in action on the leads, using "crunch" voice on channel 2. It responds very well to boosting I recently discoverred too. Currently reworking that entire track (it grew 3 more minutes, but I think it will have a lot more familiarity now, which is important to the listener, without getting boring, less dense overall too hopefully.) But ever guitar tone on that tune is from that amp, using 3 different voicings total. I can even get fender style cleans in one more playing very lightly (playing under breakup).


Can't currently watch the vid, sorry.


Edit: I should add I do use effects, tastefully and sometimes not so tastefully, part of the game, I do whatever it calls for at the time. Guitar amps weren't originally made to be overdriven/distorted, that in itself is 'an effect' so I try to keep an open mind.

Last edited by sirmyghin on Fri May 13, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

My first guitar was an old Stella Tenor guitar that had been kicking around the house for years. I think it had been a gift to my sister from one of her old boyfriends, but she never learned to play. Strings about 3/8" off the fretboard. I had that, a Lyle Classic, a Harmony Sovereign Jumbo and my Fender Duo-sonic when I went off to college. The Stella got put away as soon as I moved to the 6-string Lyle; but the Lyle got ruined in a car accident. One of my buddies was driving me to a football game and we nearly got killed head on by a car illegally passing on a twisty road. So I really only had the Harmony and the Fender. I sold the Duo-Sonic after I bought my Tele Thinline in 1970.

It wasn't until after all my gear was stolen out of my car in October, 1972 that I began to collect guitars. It took a long time to get back from the theft. My mom and dad really helped me out as much as they could. Over the years, until 2001, I'd collected 9 guitars. Since 2002, it's jumped up to 48. That's about five too many and six not enough, LOL! Miss Leslie has been though all of that buying, and we do it together--no surprises. She's really with me.

But back in my twenties, I can remember bringing a new guitar out to my parents' house being all excited and my dad giving me a quasi-hard time, "How many of those things can you play at one time?" But when I bought the banjo, that ended it. He loved the banjo, and always seem to enjoy it when I would bring out to the house. I think my mom understood the passion much better. But, she's the one who taught me how to play, so she was probably thinking she'd created a monster, LOL!

I do use effects to color my tone, but the trick is to not over-use them. I equate it to being a painter--I want a dab of yellow here, some blue there, a touch of purple here to contrast with the green, a splash of red,...etc. I don't really have a signature effect, and I don't want one, either. I have to be careful using chorus and phasor with my current band, as Sandy often uses a Rhodes piano patch with modulation, or a Leslie effect on the organ patch. If I use too much, it can get muddy real fast. I play primarily clean, so I need a good clean tone from the amp. With the Mesas I use, I get both a good clean tone and the soaring, singing lead tones Mesas are famous for.

There's not one specific rig, but the G&Ls or the Les Pauls or the Ghostriders through my Mesa Mark III half-stack. So many fond memories of people coming up to me in a bar or at one of the festivals and telling me how good the band sounded, or what a great tone I had, or what a great player I am (I'm NOT!), or how how much fun they had. That's a real ego boost.

When I had the Seattle band, I would always tell my friend and roadie Tracy to not be a suck up--to always tell me the truth about how we sounded. He got it and understood what I needed, and on more than one occasion would let us know in no uncertain terms that we sounded awful, had no energy, were too loud or too soft or that we just plain sucked. It could be brutal, but that's how you get better. And he let us know when we were great and rocking--so he wasn't always dispensing doom and gloom.

I had one guitar that I always loved, but I worried about my tone--just "unsure". I learned to just love that guitar, to feel the joy of being able to make music. I would be on stage with this big grin on my face, totally enjoying the moment, loving my guitar. And the more I loved it, the better it would sound. And I would get compliments and love it all the more...creating this big ball of self-sustaining love and energy. Magic! I learned how to do this with any guitar, and it is so much easier to play well when I don't have the worry hanging on me and surrounded by the insecurity. I do affirmations before I go on stage, and it has really helped my confidence...and my tone.

Probably sounds simplistic...but that really is the secret...it really is that simple.

Bill

I enjoyed that video, thanks for sharing it. Smiling is something my girlfriend does really well. WHenever we're walking down the street people smile at her. It always brings to mind something Dolly Parton says in 'The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas' - "If you see someone without a smile give 'em yours". Great line.

What is your preference: Do you let the guitar speak for itself or do you color its tone with effects and amplifiers?

I'll quote Yngwie Malmsteen: "An electric guitar without an amp is lie a violin without a bow". Like him or not (I do) there's little arguing that point. Yeah you can play a guitar without an amp, an they might sound good, but that's missing out on the best part of it!

I use effects sparingly. I have overdrive from the amp, a clean boost and tremolo. Nothing like phasers or, god forbid, ring modulators. If I wanted my guitar to sound like that I'd get a synthesizer.

My amp is a Mark V (Mesa) and it is an amp tweakers dream...

Sirmy, I came across a Mesa MkV yesterday in a shop. Holy cow, that thing is tricky! A seriously impressive piece of equipment. Unfortunately I didn't have time to play through it, but I gave it a good looking-over and tried to make sense of what all the switches do. Seems to be different EQ or something?


Thanks for an entertaining week, CGT.

Thanks again for the nomination CGT I hope my lunch reports are at least half as interesting and thoughtful as yours were, speaking of which as my first guitar was an old Yamaha classical lent to me by my grandfather the fact that I would eventually buy my own was not a surprise to my folks.

The timing was though, I had just left my first job (Janitorial work at one of the malls, what can I say after a year or two of that you look for greener pastures) and was just hanging out with a friend of mine when I suggested we check out the local L&M (I wanted to window shop) while there checking out acoustics I asked the dealer about one of the Seagulls he had (another friend of mine who taught me my first few chords has a Seagull) when he suggested a Norman, handed me the B20HG and knocked $100 off the regular price.

While playing what 2 chords I knew by heart at the time (because of the width of the classical the only chords I could practice comfortably without having my hand cramp up were E and A) my friend who doesn't play guitar saw me with the Norman and mentioned how natural I looked with it, how could I argue with her and away I went and that guitar has been a constant companion to me and sounds sweeter now then it ever has before.

i fully expect my G&L to be just as much a companion, right now I am running my Vibro champ XD on amp model 1 (Tweed Champ emulation ironically as the amp is in the blackface style) with Vol Tone and Bass on full, Gain at 2 and Reverb to taste, everything else controlled on the guitar.

I use effects sparingly. I have overdrive from the amp, a clean boost and tremolo. Nothing like phasers or, god forbid, ring modulators. If I wanted my guitar to sound like that I'd get a synthesizer.

Synth pedals are nice sometimes, but ring modulators, never seen anyone get anything good out of them

Sirmy, I came across a Mesa MkV yesterday in a shop. Holy cow, that thing is tricky! A seriously impressive piece of equipment. Unfortunately I didn't have time to play through it, but I gave it a good looking-over and tried to make sense of what all the switches do. Seems to be different EQ or something?

A very hard amp to sit down and dial in what you want without some practice. If you go back to DR B's thread, I talk a bit about the interactive EQ. As stated, the treble is the first in line, and acts as a gain stage too. The higher it goes, the less the other 2 see, that is pretty important for some settings , like Mark I mode in channel 2 with my ASAT, gain about 12, presence and treble around 3 (it is very dark) and I can leave the mids and bass OFF ! (mids won't do much, but if you add bass it is flub/super sag city). Very counter intuitive, but a really juicy extremely high sustain lead tone that sounds amazing. It took me about 1 month to start dialing in a few good tones, just recently after about 9-10 months I could dial in any tone I need , I guess I finally understand how it works. This could work against the company if no one is there to help you the first time though.

CGT: I enjoyed your week. Your video made me smile today too.

As soon as I read some research a few years ago suggesting that putting a smile on actually tends to make the smiler happier, I had this epiphany that Mankind had finally stumbled upon something worthwhile! I believe. Then again, I believe that we're not close to being alone in the universe, and that Joe Walsh messed up the Eagles.

Anyhow, your lunch sounds great to me. I had a couple of Nutter-Butter cookies (shared with my American Eskimo Dog) and some coffee brewed on a newly-acquired K-cup coffee maker (a birthday gift to my wife from her sister).

Anyhow, to your parental reaction guitar inquiry: My 7th grade math teacher (a cool young guy who had a 'Vette and a '72 Mach 1) made a few bucks on the side teaching guitar. He had an LP and a '66 Fender Jaguar (refin) and offered me the Jag for $100. I had my own money from cutting lawns, babysitting, etc. and I don't recall my folks objecting to my purchase. I played that guitar in the HS stage (jazz) band, and it got stolen my senior year when the band room got broken into. I needed a replacement quick, and stupidly purchased the first thing I tried - and LP copy by Bradley. Not worth the $99 it cost me. Years later, I learned my folks got an insurance settlement of $465.00. This bothered me for years, until I realized that I never paid a penny of premiums.

Regarding your somewhat vast tone combination question, I'm a bad one to ask. I suck and play only to annoy myself.

These days I'm enjoying plugging an old SC-3 and an early ASAT straight into an old '64 Vox AC-4 (thanks jonc!)

AHRYN. Looking forward to your say. - ed

It took me about 1 month to start dialing in a few good tones, just recently after about 9-10 months I could dial in any tone I need , I guess I finally understand how it works. This could work against the company if no one is there to help you the first time though.

I'll bet that perseverance has paid off and that you could get literally ANY sound out of it too. To call it 'tweak-able' would be an understatement.

All this talk of Sirmyghin's Mesa Mark V has me AASsing.

Thanks for a very informative/entertaining week CGT, wish I could have contributed more but I've been swamped at work.

Unannounced guitar: Never had an unannounced guitar, I've had plenty of upfront "persuasions" to get through but never just brought one home.
I first became interested in guitar when my sister and her boyfriend went out on a date and for some reason he left his guitar at our house, it was a tobacco sunburst Fender strat with a rosewood board, I can still picture it. I was in elementary school at the time, I asked my parents for a guitar for Christmas and foolishly pointed out the "Hotlix" guitar, which was a toy that looked like a guitar (to me at the time anyway), what a shock when I opened up that one on Christmas morning
I did end up getting a guitar for Christmas several years later, it was an Epiphone strat copy in tobacco sunburst.

Color your sound?: When I first started out I bought a few fx/multi fx pedals, took a long break from guitar when I came back I found the only one I still liked was the tube screamer(which sounded much better now that I had a tube amp) I still don't use much, just a green screamer and the tremolo on my amp(I swear I'll repair it soon). I do have a compressor on the way though and I'd like to pick up a fuzz and a delay to play around with. So I guess my answer is my guitar mainly speaks for itself but I'm about to try out some color now that I kinda know what I'm looking for

-Dave

Great thread.

Although I had an electric guitar when i was a teenager - it was only for a short time and I never really played it properly or really applied myself. I got frustrated with it and sold it after a year and never touched one again until about 3 years ago (I am now 40 years old). So I never really had the 'parents issue' - but I do now have the 'wife' issue. Its not cool learning to play (when you cant play well at all) in front of the ladies....they like to see the finished article and I am far from that.

Anyway, she is supportive - but my issue is it takes me a long time to convince her I need another guitar, or a new amp (when the need arises) when I am still very amatuerish and learning. How many of us have heard "But you already have a guitar, why do you need another one?" Many of you may not play in bands - but you will still understand the need to have a range of equipment to explore a range of tones and sounds. That's where the enjoyment is.

In terms of amps - as is dscussed in another thread around here - I am only just realising this idea of how much there is to explore with the amp choice.

On an unrelated issue I have a scientist / engineer friend who has built something he calls a cymascope which allows you to see sound. In other words, you can see, in a dynamic visual image the structure of your sound. Its not like those things you get on computer sound players - its a genuine representation of the stucture of frequencies etc, in the visual domain. Its still under development - but the promise of this thing as a fun tool is huge. Think of a dynamic keliediscope with waveforms radiating from centre to periphery, with varying amplitudes, and varying frequencies, unfolding in real time.......

Hey CGT,
Good job this week, sorry i didn't get a chance to post more... 2 sick kids in the house, 1 with strep throat - the other a stomach flu. Not a fun week in my house.

G&L question
I think the majority of my guitars (probably 10 out of 16) have been unannounced! My wife is always supportive of my ever growing GAS, and i figure now is the time before the kids are in soccer, hockey, etc etc. And of course it helps if she ever questions an new acquisition all i need to tell her that it is a business expence
Its funny that you posed this question since i totally got busted last night - I was the only bidder on a cool looking vintage white ASAT special deluxe, and she read the email that i won before i did She says no more for a while... i can live with that.

Non G&L

I usually keep my amp and pedal settings very similar from guitar to guitar. I like to let the nuances of each guitar speak for themselves, especially the differences between the solid bodies and semi hollows. When i was younger i started out with a Digitech GSP 21 Pro (anyone remember those?) It was such a great teaching tool for me - getting to learn what every effect was named, what it sounded like and order of the effects changed the signal. It really helped me out when i made the switch to tube amps and pedals, i knew what i liked and what i didn't. If i had to pick one tone combination - for me the ASAT special (solid body) with my Z Route 66 and RC booster is what i refer everything back too.

Thanks again for accepting the nomination this week
Scott

Great week CGT. And looking forward to Ahryn's contributions next week!

My first guitar was a classical my aunt had stashed away for years. Awful little thing that was severely traumatized by being strung with steel strings. The neck could be use in jai alai so to speak. My parents were always adamant any money I earned should be put in a bank account. They had their reasons for their conviction but it takes all the fun out of life for a teenager. So we made an agreement: I would work the land during the summer at my uncles and 25% of the money would be discretionary. My first summer I bought a Hondo LP model and cheap amp, the next summer some Martin acoustic knock-off, the next summer a Lab L-5. Wish the guitars were of better quality but alas.

My wife has been very understanding and generally supportive with my bouts of G.A.S. So no need for crazy games although I am not completely innocent. One of my guitars has come in without her knowing but I felt really bad about it myself and never repeated that ruse.

Like Scott above I am certainly not much of an amp tweaker. In my big rig I can switch between 128(!) amp sounds created by a Tri-Axis and Simul 2:90 power amp. I think I effective only use 8 or so that speak to me and never went beyond that. On the Express 5:25, I play almost 100% on the clean channel in 5W setting and kick in some effect pedals if I want some more grind. And that channel, especially when using an ASAT, is the best I have in terms of tone. I tweak the controls slightly when switching over to one of my PRS's but not much.

- Jos

Hey Jos,

Don't give me any ideas, i have yet to sneak one in! My other rig is a Marshall JMP-1 and 9100 power amp. I always wanted to try the tri-axis but have never come across one in my neck of the woods. I never understood why the tube rack stuff never took off but i do get some pretty funny looks when i open up the rack case and players see all the buttons and knobs! It is a great sounding marshall rig which doesn't take much tweaking, much like the tri-axis i'm assuming
Scott

i was in the USAF and single when i bought my first guitar...pretty much only had cheapos for a long time...
after a couple of marriages and several long relationships, i've gotten over having to have a woman around...i'm by myself and like it that way...so the only approval i need for a new guitar is my own...
some of my amp settings are pretty clean...most have reverb and a bit of delay...a couple have more effects, including one i created using auto wah for a PRS Mira i had...hasn't really sounded good with any other guitar until i tried it with my ASAT Classic S this morning on "White Room"...that sounded great!

good job, CGT...

My amp is a Mark V (Mesa) and it is an amp tweakers dream...

Sirmy, I came across a Mesa MkV yesterday in a shop. Holy cow, that thing is tricky! A seriously impressive piece of equipment. Unfortunately I didn't have time to play through it, but I gave it a good looking-over and tried to make sense of what all the switches do. Seems to be different EQ or something?

If you want to try a Mark V (or any other Mesa amp you are not familiar with), the best thing to do is to go to the Mesa Website and download the amp's Owner's Manual. The manuals are really good; you'll get a good understanding of the amp, and it will have some basic "starting point" settings. The best starting point with a newer Mesa is with the knobs at 12 noon, and adjust from there. Once you understand one channel, it just repeats x3 with differrent gain stages.

The cool thing is how you can adjust the power stage of the amp. The Mark V is a little simplified from the Mark IV. On my Mark IV, I can go from about 15 watts Class A to 85 watts of Simul-Class power, with a whole lot of stops in between.

The amp can be switched from two tubes in Class A, or add two more 6L6s in Class AB for Simul-Class power.
I can switch between triode/pentode.
Use either 6L6 or EL34 in the Class A sockets.
"Tweed" or Full Power--Tweed is lower voltage for a browner, more pushed tone.
Select "Mid-Gain" or "Harmonics" to control the midrange response of the power amp.
The "Presence" knob on R2 and LEAD channels has a push/pull switch to shift frequencies of the Presence control. Pushed in, the tone is gainier and with more upper-mid agression.
You can mismatch the amp's output impedance, using the 4 ohm jack the the amp's internal speaker, thereby lowering the output and changing the response.

Mind you these controls affect only the POWER AMP; and then you have three channels of preamp to deal with, plus the 5-band EQ. Probably hundreds of combinations. Live, I pretty much set it in the recommended sweet spots and forget it. For recording, it's a fully analog modelling amp--only it is the real deal--very handy and satisfying.

So, if you want to take another shot at that Mark V, read the Owner's Manual and take it along with you--you'll have it purring in no time at all.

Bill