Lunch Report - Monday March 7th

Hi all and welcome to todays' Lunch Report, I'd like to thank Alf for asking me to do the duties this week, it is a privilege.

Lunch:

Well today I had something relatively healthy, scrambled eggs on toast with a liberal dose of black pepper and with some sparkling water. Not very imaginative maybe, but very tasty. I read somewhere in the last couple of weeks that eggs are no longer considered to be as high a source of cholesterol as previously thought, which came as a surprise. For a long time they were thought to be high in cholesterol. It seems that hens are fed a much healthier diet these days with no bonemeal, which was the major contributor to the high levels of cholesterol. I'm not sure if that applies globally or if it's an Irish or European thing but it goes to show that some things do change for the better.

G&L Question :

Nitro finishes. Some people swear by them others swear at them. As G&L are using nitro finishes on the rustic models how would G&L fans feel about the entire range being finished in nitro ? Or maybe having it as an option on a custom ordered guitar ? Do you care if your instrument is nitro or poly finished ? Do you even know how any of yours' are currently finished. I understand the arguments for and against using one finish or the other, poly is very durable and tough, nitro allows the instrument to breathe and vibrate more freely but is more sensitive and can be more difficult to maintain, and when applying is more hazardous to the environment etc. Please discuss.

Non G&L Question:

Coated strings .. do you love or hate them ?

I've recently started using coated strings on my acoustics, I've tried the Elixir nanowebs 80/20s and the D'Addario EXP 80/20s, both in 12-53 gauge. So far I've liked the Elixirs more, they seem to last forever and sound great. It took me a while to get used to the feel and they do seem to have slightly higher tension than my previous non coated strings. I picked up an acoustic with old non coated strings the other day and in a few minutes my finger tips were dirty, something that just doesn't happen with coated strings. I haven't taken the plunge yet and used coateds on an electric, but the time is rapidly approaching. Does any body have any experiences good or bad with acoustic or electric coated strings that they would like to share ?

Thanks for any input.

Paul


Gratuitous pic



especially for Alf ....

wow, drooling over that special, cant wait...

I agree, eggs are fine, I eat them all the time, just not every day, love em.

I would like to see G&L offer nitro on all guitars as an option, I would really like to hear the tonal difference. I do believe that a "breathable" finish is much better for the wood and the sound, even though its not as durable.

I switched all my strings over to Elixer nanowebs and really got to love them. Agreed they take some getting used to but I love them. Then my luthier told me about the pyramid round core strings and I have those on my electrics. I like the sound, the playability but the nanowebs would definitely be easier to play and last longer. When my pyramids run out, I'll try the Elixer's again.

BTW, I'm just watching the Heart DVD that just came out, downloaded it on youtube. The guitar player has some fascinating guitars, but when he picked up a tele, it was a G&L Asat classic!!!!!!!!!!

The nitro 'breathing' is one of the biggest crocks of the century. I have seen people make clips of a finished guitar, stripping it and oiling it and there is no bloody difference. Most finishes are not thick enough to interact in a meaningful way on a good guitar. Nitro is a less durable, sticky, environmentally unfriendly finish. I will stick with polys. Nitro has 1 real advantage though, layers melt together. You can touch it up. Can't do that with poly. That aside, the guys who swear by a particular finish are typically pretty set in their ways and need to develope excuses not to change.

I use coated strings, but not stuff like Elixir. Hate the feel, and they are too dull. I did use them for a long time, but it was for economical reasons. They sound the same for a long time, but not bright enough for me. Now 9$ a set (for EB coated, thank you strings and beyond) I don't care. I use EB titanium coated and run each set for a few weeks before I cahnge them (no more than 1 month).

I'm not sure about nitro finishes being particularly bad for the environment. The raw material would definitely be quite flammable, but probably no more so in practice than the lacquer used for "normal" finishes. The fire protection concerns and controls within the factory would probably be identical between the two processes. I would guess that the hydrocarbon emissions from the nitro finishing process (what actually reaches the air outside the factory) would be significanty lower for the nitro finish due to the fact that less coats need to be applied. That's a semi-educated guess, though. If I remember correctly, Fender and Gibson started moving toward nitro finishes on their less expensive domestic models about five years ago to reduce the cost of environmental controls. Since this was pretty much limited to the $999 and below American-made models, I have to believe it was a matter of cheapness rather than a desire to increase quality. At least I can't remember reading any advertising for the more expensive instrument lines that claimed a nitro finish would improve the sound. The expensive ones all seem pretty shiny.

I do have one G&L with what appears to be a nitro finish. It's an old (approximately 1983) SB-1. This model wasn't offered in anything transparent or blond, and the finish has some questionable blending around the edges, so I'm guessing it was an experimental finish that never made it beyond this one instrument. On the positive side, this is my only Leo-era instrument that does not have significant dings in the finish (the others have opaque polyester finishes). There are just some indentations on the back that would have been major belt buckle rash if they had happened to my other instruments. My newest G&L is a '98 ASAT, so I can't really speak to anything G&L has used since then.

Ken

I eat eggs, I've been raised to think they're a great source of vitamins/proteins etc and that you shouldn't worry about whatever cholesterol is in them. I recently found thishot sauce in a Spanish grocer, it's even better on eggs than Tabasco! I am currently undertaking a project with the working title 'Eggs A Hundred Ways' where I have to think up 100 different ways of serving eggs. I'm up to about six... I may publish it as an e-book when it's all done, but probably not

Finishes: I'm with Sirmy on nitro. I don't care for it. It's one of the biggest overhyped things since the Klon..... I had a nitro finished '57 reissue strat and it was sticky when the weather changed. Whether it sounds better or not I can't say, but to my ear it makes no difference. I'm happy with Polly finishes. I used automotive clear coat (acrylic lacquer) on the body of my parts guitar, and it feels great, very tactile. I like a finish that feels good first.

Strings: I have been using standard Ernie Ball slinky strings (yellow packet) for as long as I can remember. I haven't experimented with coated strings because my strings seem to stay in pristine condition for months. I believe that my sweat must contain some sort of 'fountain of youth formula' for guitar strings.



Great pic of the Special Deluxe!!! Is that puppy in your avatar grown up now?

Paul, I have been waiting to see some of your lefties on display! Great grain on the special.

We have eggs once or twice a week. Almost everything has been labeled bad at one point or another. I try not live perfect, because If the Dr tells me to clean up my act, I have somewhere to go.

Nito/Poly. The debate will never end. I have painted a lot of nitro in the past and it is so forgiving and can be easily touched up. The durability is lower than anything else you could paint. I am a poly fan all the way. I do not believe the difference in a solid body electric would be hardly noticeable. I do think a pure acoustic benefits from the lack of anything that will dampen the wood. Once it is electrified, that advantage lessens greatly in my opinion. I have quite a few nitro guitars and handle them carefully. I have guitars that resonate beautifully and I believe it is a combination of wood and how the bridge/ strings/neck couple to the body. That is noticeable unplugged. Again, plugged in will change that in my opinion and the pickups become the source of the sound. This is a discussion that will never end!!!!

I do like coated strings on acoustics because they last much longer and mine are played very seldom. I will probably not go to coated on my electrics as I use D'Addarios and buy them in bulk at less that $3 a set. On the guitars that are played infrequently I change them yearly and much more often on the ones that I gig.
I use at least 50 sets a year. Great start Paul and tell about the pooch in your Avatar.-- Darwin

Hi Paul,

Love eggs especially poached. My mouth is watering just thinking about it.

I would like to see nitro as an option on a custom order. But I am content with current poly finish, especially after experiencing the proverbial stickiness on my PRS 245 Sunburst.

I stopped using coated strings many years ago. I did not have a lot of money to change strings that frequently and when the coating started to flake off, I just lost my appetite for them. Maybe technology has advanced over the last decade such that they are more durable, but I'm still content with my uncoated strings.

- Jos

Thanks for the replies guys.

I have a few nitro finish guitars, Heritage and one Gibson. I can't say I love or hate the finish, I've never had any problems with it, thankfully none have reacted through playing or use. Of major concern would be a sudden change in temperature, I've read some horror stories where guitars shipped in cold weather have been subjected to a rapid temperature rise resulting in a cracked finish, not good ! Then again an option to have a custom order nitro finish would be good. Until the advent of the internet I can't say I knew or cared that much what finish a guitar had and at this point it's hard to know what to believe. For example, I played my '70s strat for years not knowing or caring that it was poly finished or that it was, quote, a "boat anchor", to me it was just a good guitar.

Molly is two now and a real character. She sometimes has cell phones for lunch.

She has demolished at least two of them now, one a year. Not a bad average for a Jack Russell I suppose !

Paul, I do have a nitro story. Back in 1962 I had a new Gibson ES125 TDC in cherry burst. I was gigging and left it in the car one night when it was -20F. The next time I open the case it looked like a 3000 piece puzzle. The nitro was cracked all over. From new to relic in one night. The fellow who bought it a year later didn't seem to care. I was young, stupid, and bullet proof. I am no longer young! -- Darwin

Last edited by darwinohm on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Paul, Molly is gorgeous. You should give her Droids/and the latest I-Pods to play with. We love pets. The bad thing is that they do not last nearly long enough. Is she a lefty???-- Darwin

, quote, a "boat anchor", to me it was just a good guitar.

You like that one a lot don't you . I have some monster heavy guitars. My mahogany and maple super strat weighs over 9 lbs, my bass over 12. Frankly I wish my ASAT was a little bit heavier, as it has a tiny touch of neck dive, should have bought that blonde boat anchor in the store

Sirmy, If you lived south of the equator you wouldn't have that problem.--- Darwin

Hey Paul. Nice start!

Seems like some folks here don't realize that you have some of the very most beautiful lefties on the planet. I'm guessing you will use this week to educate the masses.

Eggs: My theory that eggs are pretty much what they've always been. Like most everything else, just fine in moderation. Delicious and most versatile, in fact. I suspect that the difference today reflects the healthier marketing budget of the Dinosaur Relative Embryo Sellers Association.

Nitro vs. Poly: Each has pluses and minuses. I know I will never play well enough so that anybody would know or care one way or another as to how my guitars are finished - or what woods they are made of for that matter.

Coated Strings: MffffllllleddnnnnGreeeasssey. Ahem! Muffled and Greasy. A bit less so for acoustic. There you have 'em. My two bits.
- ed

Hey Paul,

G&L Question :
Nitro finishes.
Have one and I do like the look. Have other poly versions as well. In the end I really can't tell the difference in sound, but haven't spent any time doing A/B sound tests. I do think a nitro option would be good to have from the G&L crew.

Non G&L Question:

Coated strings .. do you love or hate them ?
None at this time. Did have Elixer nanowebs on my Martin but recently changed to Martin's. I may have to go back to the Elixers next time to see which sound/feel I like better. No experience with coated electrics.

BTW - great pic An ASAT all grain with guard is definately on my gotta get list.

Guys,

I love eggs cooked any witch way. The wife has gotten to be a egg snob, she only buys organic brown eggs (mainly from Costco). She won't buy anything else. Thats ok with me.

As far as nitro and poly that is one thing that makes no diffrernce to me. I own guitars with both.
There is a market for nitro. Some people swear by it,but I like the fact as long as I take care of my poly finished guitars 20 years from now they will still look new. A good poly finished guitar and a good nitro finished guitar will still sound and play good.


As far as strings go I guess I am old school. I I tried coated and I didn't like them. So I use D'Addaro XL and ole' EB Slinkys.

Great dog! I have a soft spot for animals.

chet

Coated Strings: MffffllllleddnnnnGreeeasssey. Ahem! Muffled and Greasy. A bit less so for acoustic. There you have 'em. My two bits.
- ed

Check out the EB I mentioned Ed, feel like normal strings. They don't have any polymer or crap on em.

Sirmy, If you lived south of the equator you wouldn't have that problem.--- Darwin

Unless this is an australia is upside down joke you have lose me.

SouthpawGuy,

Good start, like the pole:

Lunch: I can eat eggs any time of day!:o)

G&L Question: I only had one nitro Guitar(LesPaul), but it's been so long ago i can't remember much other than it did have a sticky neck sometimes! I like the poly finish! It is so much more durable and has a beautiful shine to it. I don't notice any difference in the sound. My new Legacy sounds awesome compared to the Fender deluxe strat I had. The satin finish on my Legacy neck is so much smoother than the nitro finish on my old Les! I love the way it plays and looks!!! This is my first G&L guitar and I'm already hooked in less than 2 weeks. I'm gassing for another one already! Oh well, you guys warned me and now I'll just have to suffer!

Non-G&L Question: Coated strings...Had on my Taylor 514c and didn't like em. Never had em on any of my electrics. I use Dean Markley Classic 172's(10-46) pure nichol coated wraped around a steel round core center. They hold their tone, last a long time, and they don't break!! They're awesome strings! You all should try em sometime. I promise, you won't be disappointed!

Thanks to all that responded to todays LR, just a reminder that the poll regarding a nitro finish option will be open until Saturday. There are some interesting choices so far. I will be posting Tuesdays LR at about 1 - 2 pm US west coast time ( PST ?) . If I post it at Irish lunch time you will be looking at it at 5 am in California, and I don't want to have to rouse the west coast guys just to hear my ramblings, erm I mean thought provoking, insightful discussion

Paul, Molly is gorgeous. You should give her Droids/and the latest I-Pods to play with. We love pets. The bad thing is that they do not last nearly long enough. Is she a lefty???-- Darwin

Thanks ! Now that you mention it she does give her left paw a lot more than the right one.

Just goes to show how intelligent she is

Sirmy, it is a joke, to do with magnetic poles. North and South. The tuners would pull down at one pole and push up at the other. There are probably people who would argue that. Just a joke from a warped old Swede!-- Darwin

I'm not naturally drawn to eggs for some reason, but I could eat fried or poached eggs with crispy bacon and hollandaise sauce at any time of the day.

Nitro: I only have one guitar with nitro, a mid 90's Fender strat plus. It looks gorgeous and vintage, but I don't like the sticky neck and the crazing in the lacquer that is developing despite the guitar having a very sheltered life. My mid 90's poly S-500 looks near new even though it has seen far more action than the strat. Give me a poly guitar any day.

I've tried Elixir strings on my acoustic guitar and one of my electrics. They were very bright on the acoustic and I took 'em straight back off. Probably not the string's fault though, it is a bright guitar. I quite liked the feel of the coated strings and left them on the electric. I've used D'Addarios virtually my whole life but recently bought some Dean Markley Blue Steels from the bargain basket at my local music shop. They feel smoother than my normal D'Addario's and seem easier to bend. The tone is more 'worn in' and less bright than new strings usually sound. They'd be perfect on my bright acoustic guitar.

I haven't tried any coated strings yet so i have no opinion on them.

Nitro finishes: I have some basses in nitro but I do appreciate the need for durable finishes like polyester. I will always like a nitrocellulose finish but Leo would've used poly from the get go If he had had the option back in the 50s.
Lacquer always wears out faster. Many players don't realize that the headstock faces of Fender basses through the 70's were done in NC lacquer in order to melt in the Logo.
Nil Lofgren always strips the strats he plays because he feels that no finish on his Strat sounds better than natural.