Early Lunch Report 2-8-11

Morning,I have to do this early today. More service calls this after noon and snow and ice predicted tomorrow. Any hint of snow or ice Dallas stops.
Wife is cooking a pot of homemaid chilli.

I got 2 questions today.

1:With G&L getting back in the amp biz and it is pricy MSRP$1995.00 USD
A: Would you like to like to see a more affordable amp from G&L?
(I miss the old Music Man amps from the 70s)

B: Would You like to see a G&L amp with reverb and Vibrato?



2:With the title vintage put on so many guitars today,What do you consider vintage?



Chet

If G&L (BBE) is really going to get into the amp market (which is not clear to me), I'd love to see an inexpensive but well-made all-tube 5 or ten watt amp with decent reverb. I think there's a market for bedroom players who want good sound that don't want a lot of bells and whistles or high prices.

Vintage to me means it was made when Leo was alive. - ed

Vintage is a great marketing word because it means nothing! To me, the connotation means, old, cool and great. So as far as G&L goes I agree with Ed 100%--gotta be Leo era. For me, it's manufacturer and gear specific. For example, I don't think of my Silverface Fender Amps from the 70's as vintage. Old, and pretty great, but not cool. Gotta be pre-CBS for me to get the vintage tingle.

G&L amps? I don't know...I just want BBE to keep making really high quality guitars I can afford. I am also happy with my pedals, but I don't really know much about pedals. (I have sonic stomp and two timer delay.) I feel like there are quite a few great amps in the 2-3K range. So again, I am with Ed --a simple, high quality, portable 5W or 10W would be the most likely to hook me.

Reverb? well, I do like a touch of the tube/spring reverb on my silverfaces.

I agree with Ed on the amps. I think it is a stretch for G&L to compete in the boutique amp business. There are many excellent ones already and it is a very limited market. And yes, I want a good built in reverb.

Some consider anything older that 1980 vintage. I like to think older than 1970. Does this mean that in 10 years my 88s will be vintage? I don't know. I clearly qualify as vintage myself! I do like vintage reissues however. Darwin.

Some consider anything older that 1980 vintage. I like to think older than 1970. Does this mean that in 10 years my 88s will be vintage? I don't know. I clearly qualify as vintage myself! I do like vintage reissues however. Darwin.

I want in on this...I have to say no they won't be vintage. There is just some times and places where amazing stuff is happening, and those times get farther away, but they are still where it's at...That doesn't mean that the gear isn't great, it's just like wine. Most vintage is great, but some is greater!

I don't know if G&L is getting into the amp business or not. The temptation is to go boutique because that is where the profit is in this business. I will wait and see what they do.

I do think that Silver Face Fender amps are the best deals in vintage amp collecting. They are not far from the black face circuits and some are exactly the same. They are already considered vintage amps inspite of what anyone thinks.

Tell me what you expect to pay for a hand wired tube amp in today's market?
I bought my Silverface Princeton for a fraction of what a new boutique amp costs and it is a great amp that can be easily modified and repaired and it sounds great. I'll take a Silver face over a pricey Blackface Fender amp any day, and I own examples of both.

bassman

I don't know if G&L is getting into the amp business or not. The temptation is to go boutique because that is where the profit is in this business. I will wait and see what they do.

I do think that Silver Face Fender amps are the best deals in vintage amp collecting. They are not far from the black face circuits and some are exactly the same. They are already considered vintage amps in spite of what anyone thinks.

Tell me what you expect to pay for a hand wired tube amp in today's market?
I bought my Silverface Princeton for a fraction of what a new boutique amp costs and it is a great amp that can be easily modified and repaired and it sounds great. I'll take a Silver face over a pricey Blackface Fender amp any day, and I own examples of both.

bassman

I don't disagree at all, you can afford to get into it, and afford to own and play the silverface stuff. I have not paid over $700 for any of my silverface amps up front. And they were all in good working order, some cosmetic short comings. My deluxes don't have the older circuit, and one has the much maligned pull boost. The pull boost does suck, so I don't use it. I like that amp a little better than the older one without the pull boost, overall; so I am not going to bother taking it out. I am not going to do the 'blackface mod' on either, I don't see the point. But it is easy, and pretty cheap to do. But my sound will be better if I spend that time playing instead of messing with the already great gear.

To me the silverfaces don't have quite the coolness as the pre-CBS stuff; and If stuff from the 70's is vintage, that means I am vintage, but I am not down with that quite yet. But if I had a blackface amp, I would be afraid to play it much, especially out. So what's the point in that? And even if my DR's suddenly appreciated a ton I won't part with them, so what's the point of that?

Edit: I never did answer your question, I think it takes 2K to buy a good hand wired amp new today. I haven't really looked much, but that seems to be the floor to me.

I don't think G&L will really break into the amp market, like others have said there is already a large selection of established boutique amps readily available, plus most of the hand-wired amps today are just copies of existing designs, so unless they invest a lot in R&D to create new circuits there's nothing new coming to the table. A more affordable 10 watter with reverb would be nice though

As for vintage, I have a tough time with this one, my first inclination is to say anything mid 70's and earlier, if we're talking about amps that seems to hold true. For guitars I put some weight on construction, handmade vs CNC , hand wound vs machine, it all makes a difference. I wouldn't consider the early 90's strat I had vintage by any means, but my '90 ASAT feels vintage to me, and I tend consider '91 and earlier G&L's "vintage". The argument I'll make is this; they were made in the same factory, on some of the same jigs/machines/techniques Leo used back in the 50's-60's and they're 20 years or older.

-Dave

The G&L amp, if it ever makes it into production, isn't badly priced at all. Fender list's its '57 Deluxe as $2699 MSRP. And thats for essentially the same amp. Still, I cant imagine them selling very well - as far as I know, nobody here has even bought a G&L effects pedal, and we're the enthusiasts!!! If G&L do choose to produce boutique valve amps based on vintage circuits, I'd like to see a BBE branded amp as a low cost option. If they could have similar quality and pricing in their amps as they do with their pedals it could be a success. It could even be state-of-the-art solid state, that'd be nice.

I'd love to have a '70s Music Man amp too - a friend uses one of them and it is one of the best amps I've ever heard.

I'm not fussy about reverb or tremolo in an amp. In my experience, the onboard reverb inevitably craps out, leaving you with a repair bill. I use pedals for reverb and tremolo, they're more dependable.

Vintage is hard to define. Isn't there a brand of cheapo guitars called Vintage? I'd define them as vintage guitars. Them and seemingly everything else on the market!

Vintage is an interesting discussion. I recently prepared a 79 25 Th Aniv. Fender Strat to be sold. I was offered first chance to buy this. There are many who think that late 70s Fenders are collectible and prices may support that idea. I have to tell you that the quality of the paint ( Metallic Silver) was substandard from day one. You could swim in the neck pocket around the neck and the body extended to the right of the neck for 1/16 to 1/8 of and inch. The condition of the guitar was near perfect with some discoloration in the Silver but nothing serious and was really a cool guitar. This was a time when Fender almost went under due to quality issues and ultimately moved production to Japan. If this guitar had been top production quality I would have been all over it. But hanging it next to the others that I have would not be fair to the rest only because it was produced in 1979. It is still a cool guitar but I believe will never appreciate a ton in value. Only my opinion, but you have to beware when dealing in vintage and I am no expert.--- Darwin.

1:With G&L getting back in the amp biz and it is pricy MSRP$1995.00 USD
A: Would you like to like to see a more affordable amp from G&L?
(I miss the old Music Man amps from the 70s)

......................................................I've only seen the Namm model, I don't think they are in production. And I was very tempted to get the one off e-bay because you will probably not see another. I don't see why BBE couldn't put out a great amp and brand it G&L, there wouldn't be a big market for them as there is not as big a market for thier guitars as say Fender or Gibson, but they do OK, Notice Gibson never got back into the amp market as big as they were in the 60's, why? because it doesn't say Fender or marshall on it! I'd love to see G&L make an amp using the old black and brown face circuts that would surpass a re issue fender in sound and quality and at a lower price point, If G&L can do this with thier guitars why can't BBE do it with amps. Lets face it if you want vintage blackface tone it's gonna cost you big bucks for 50's 60's Fender and your only other choice is a high priced Victoria.

The music man amps from the 70's are great amps, one of the reasons being the high quality iron they used, Andy Fuchs says it's one of his favorite sounding platforms to do his ODS Dumble mod on because of the transformers.

B: Would You like to see a G&L amp with reverb and Vibrato?

.....................YES



2:With the title vintage put on so many guitars today,What do you consider vintage?

........................To me Vintage means at LEAST 25 to 30 years old.

gary

I don't think the word vintage means a lot when it comes to guitars. "What year is my guitar?" is the wrong question. The right questions are, "Do I enjoy this guitar? Does it make me happy; make me smile when I strum it? Does it play well and sound good?" If you answer yes to those questions, then the age of the guitar doesn't really matter, does it?

Don't mistake age, or "vintage" for good. Or for quality.

Bill

... homemaid chilli.

I 'm in class this week and the company provides lunches. Had a baked potato and chili for lunch with all bells and whistles.

Would you like to like to see a more affordable amp from G&L?

Only when they keep their eye on the product that got them where they are: great guitars. But it has some appeal if they would issue amps that just sound killer with their models. A lush reverb is a must; a tasty vibrato (or actually tremolo because I'm talking volume variations, NOT frequency) would be a great addition. I have never played Music Man amps but they were very prevalent in the '70. See The Band's Last Waltz.

With the title vintage put on so many guitars today. What do you consider vintage?

I am fully aware what marketing people like to evoke with that highly abused term. I looked it up on Dictionary.com once more mainly to verify it had an oenological root, i.e. whether it is related to wine. And it does, as a noun. As an adjective, which is how we use it in today's discussion, one of its meaning is "old fashioned or obsolete"! I guess that applies to all 'vintage' reissues For me it is not related to a specific age. Yesterday's guitar can be vintage. But what needs to change is the way by which it is produced: the materials, the attention to detail, the methods employed, etc. Whenever that happens, something becomes vintage. For example, G&L's with maple bodies or 3-bolt or Bi-Cut necks would be 'vintage' in my book. Guess it is equivalent to the "representing the high quality of a past time" definition mentioned in the dictionary.

- Jos

Hmmm...G&L Amps...
I would certainly like to try one. I'm not sure if hey need to be branching out into an already pretty crowded field.
From what I've seen the Whippersnapper is sweet, and I can certainly see myself owning one.
G&L does excellent guitars and basses and I would much rather see them concentrate on those than divide their efforts.
It's hard enough to compete against the Fender juggernaut in guitars, I can imagine amps would be a whole other battle!

As far as vintage goes...it's just means old to me. The term vintage gives it a "sheen" and has all sorts of implications.
You can take some old Harmony, or something that is not too desirable to most folks, put the word "vintage" on it, and all
of a sudden it creates some sort of mystique about it. It's just old wood.

I've played some vintage guitars that just made me tear up they played so well, but then again I've played modern guitars that smoked a lot of the old stuff.
As somebody pointed out above, vintage or modern a good guitar is a good guitar. It's cool to have 50 years of "mojo" but give it time, that new piece will
develop it soon enough!

For most I think the term is thought of to mean 50's and 60's. I think guitars as whole kind of slid off quality wise in the 70's, so a lot of people don't include
those as being vintage.