Lunch Report, December 1, 2010: Wednesday in your Garden

Hi gang,

Wow, December already! The 2010 is almost over. Thanks again for the lively participation yesterday. Although the early Tele's have a slight edge there is no clear winner in the poll. Which in our modern day merely means my questions are not leading enough I really enjoyed each and every contribution.

Lunch
Guess it's that time of the week where we attend Buckley's; a pub/sports bar with some really good food. They have 2 kinds of burgers, the Juicy Jucy and Bluesy Lucy, which use cheese stuffed patties. That first bite is quite an adventure because you have no idea in what direction it will spurt out. An it's the place where, after living in the US for 15 years already, I discovered the yumminess of tater tots. But they have some fantastic salads too. So Ariel, please get me a Boddingtons and Mandarin Wonton salad!

Non-G&L related
So I have another confession to make. I have this weird habit of buying an additional Levy's MSS-3 suede leather in matching color for every new instrument. I started doing this ever since I owned 2 guitars. Same for a cleaning cloth. Same for 2 Herdim picks. Since I store my guitars in their case, I found it easy to have all of that in the case to be used when the guitar is played. Don't have to search for anything. Take case, open case, get guitar, get strap, start playing, unsnap strap, put guitar back in case, but strap in case, get cloth, clean guitar, put cloth back, close case, put case away. But you get the picture: vast number of straps, picks, cloths, and also string sets for no particular reason but habit. Although, I still use only one Peterson VS-1 tuner plus the Peterson Strobo-Rack tuner in my (where else?) rack.

Do you share accessories between different instrument? Or do you have similar habits?

G&L related
I was pleased to see a couple of 'old-timers' chiming in for yesterdays LR. So I tried to come up with a question that would suit this group just fine. Here it is:

What is the extra 'mojo' of a Leo-era G&L if any? What is so special to you about these old S-500's, F-100's, Nighthawks/Skyhawks, Interceptosr, SC's, HG's, G-200's etc?

It would be nice if it could be explained to the youngsters and newbies who may not be as familiar with the long storied history of G&L. I for myself can only speak for the Broadcaster/ASAT side of things and would like to hear about some of the other models myself too.

My first G&L's are all BBE-era instruments: '97 Legacy Special, '99 ASAT Classic, and '01 George Fullerton, all bought new. Must have been '99 when I started lurking around on the GbL website and read about the virtues of Leo-era instruments. But I didn't fully understand what they were talking about until I purchase my first Leo-era instrument last year: my Broadcaster with ebony board.

That opened my ears because there IS a difference and started my hunt for a Broadcaster with maple board and an ASAT III. That hunt resulted in yesterdays featured guitar and this '89 ASAT III:

The ASAT III had been set-up just a couple of months before and man does it play like butter. And do they sound good! OK, so does many modern G&L. So what is that difference then? I don't know to what extend yesterdays discussion regarding age and materials factors in but each one of them has a sonic complexity and maturity I find in only a few of my younger ASAT's. Akin to the difference between a younger and older Whisk(e)y. I am pretty sure the maple body has something to do with it, since my '06 maple bodied Trinity is one of the standouts among the newer ASAT's.

Talk to you later.

- Jos

Edit: fix image link after album was lost.

Last edited by yowhatsshakin on Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Those burgers sound good, but painful cardiovascularly. As for the non-G&L Q, most of the scientists I know are borderline OCD. They may seem cool and collected in public, but their personal life is maintained meticulously(well parts of it, appearance might not be as important to some, therefore dropped). Maybe it's all the focus on details and the organization required to achieve their goals. I don't really know; the same could be said about me. G&L-wise my older instruments do sound warmer and resonate more. Some of the new ones sound incredibly bright. Again, it could just be me projecting.


Cheers,

Will

I have a strap for each guitar, but keep them out of the cases. don't like straps in my cases. I only use 1 pick , my favourite agate pick. So no picks for every guitar. I have a jade one, but it is slightly different shaped, not my go to pick.

I am curious how much of the sound of old G&Ls is a mental thing, opposed to something that is there. Warmer is not something I look for in a guitar, a lack of high response is not good, I can dial out the excess. My new ASAT resonates every bit as well as my Carvin contour, or better. The neck carves have changed over the years, I figured that has something to do with the preference.

More great stuff today. Just a quick tid-bit. I lived in Olympia/Tacoma area for about 4 years. I moved there from NYC, and missed the city, so I went up to Seattle quite a bit. I found Belltown to be a very inviting little part of the city, so I am hoping that you mention a place that rings a bell. Ouch. Accidental pun...

Ahhh the guitar buying ritual! I am a poor negotiator, but I did master the art of getting a free strap when i overpaid for a guitar! So I have quite a few! I do better buying online, spending wise--but I don't get the free stap. I always carry picks, and am a total scatter brain, so I have hundreds of picks, and I must use CHEEP ones. My favorite for electric are HERCO, the silver ones. They are really soft, so kinda strange. When I find them, I buy a ton. Usually all they have. Which never ceases to amaze an annoy the proprietors.

Special Leo era mojo? For Surely! I can't really compare sounds between very similar guitars pre-BBE/post-BBE because I don't currently own any very similar guitar. I have 2 pre-BBE guitars, an F-100 and an ASAT classic. I love the F-100 because it is it's own thing. Originally, it was very flexible in terms or configurations and sounds, but not in the current 'modeling' sense, but in a 'plug this in to lots of different stuff and have at making great sounds' sense. I loved one of them so much a standardized on it for a long time. (That and losing some parts, see my Great F-100 Rebuild of 2011 post for more.)

The thing I love about the ASAT classic is-well it's a grade A+++ tele.Nothing more, nothing less. And I love owning a great tele!

On the feel side, The f-100 neck is my favorite ever, the ASAT is second. I think that just has to do with hours in hand, and I have short fingers---so the very thin neck profile is great for me.

My only post BBE era an ASAT deluxe. I love it. The sound is as raunchy as I can take. It is extremely well constructed. It is beautiful, the finish is more amazing than my older ones. I don't like the neck as well, although there is nothing wrong with it. But it lacks the uniqueness of the F-100, and you can't really compare it to the classic at all. It's a new guitar, great in every way; except it lacks a little something...

I tend to share stuff. My favorite strap is an old one with a pic of Gumby on it. The other one I like I made from a WWII era rifle sling. Took some work but it is now nice and soft. Same with tuners - I only own one and that is an E tuning fork (it was made in Germany and I guess for whatever reason they tune it to E rather than A).

I have always been partial to Leo-era G&Ls despite the pencil thin necks. My first G&L was a 1st body style Interceptor. This was followed by a Broadcaster and then two '86 ASATs (black and burst). My favorite of the bunch was the Interceptor. Liked it so much I once sold it and then bought it back.

You have some beautiful guitars Jos, I'd love to see a BIG family photo of them, like the one n your avatar but way bigger.

I share things between instruments. I have bought straps for certain guitars, ones that match up, but I rarely use them because my favorite strap is more comfortable, looks better and I have it set up perfectly for myself. I've started using different picks recently, the Fender 351 celluloid, medium gauge ones. They wear out very, very quickly so I try and keep a whole bunch on hand. I always have a pack of them in my gig bag, occasionally they float around in cases. I lose a lot of them too. I clean my guitars (just using a rag, no polish or anything) before a gig, but not after practice at home, I'm far too much of a slob to do that!

With the Leo era instruments, are they all 'better' then the BBE era ones, or are the examples owned by various people just excellent examples? I'd love to try one out. Surely there are some out there that aren't as good as others.

It amazes me that people have been on forums like this since the '90s. I've only become acquainted with the internet in the last 2 years! Prior to that I only ever used the internet for email.

As for the non-G&L Q, most of the scientists I know are borderline OCD.

I hate to admit it but it's true. I'm a scientist, and though kids have cured me of being OCD, I'm still very heavily into details and order. My wife is a scientist and she's a self confessed OCD sufferer. All the scientists I know have the same bent towards detail and order. When coupled with extreme introversion and poor communication skills, some scientists are plain painful to be around..... The funny thing is a LOT of scientists are heavily into music, probably to counterbalance the 'order and control' parts of their personalities. Paralysis by analysis is a well known scientific affliction.

As far as picks go, I have about 50 of them lying around the house, all Dunlop Nylon standards, the dark grey ones. There's a secret reserve stash of them somewhere in the house but I can never remember where I put them.

I used to buy matching straps for each guitar but have settled on a few favourite, comfortable ones that I shift from guitar to guitar as required. The standard Fender straps are hard to beat for comfort I reckon, but Planet Waves do some pretty colourful designs. I've only ever owned one tuner, a Boss digital model from the late 80's. I was surprised to see that the current ones still look exactly the same!

I've never seen a pre-BBE G&L in the flesh to know what all the buzz is about. They're pretty rare in Australia. But I would really like to try or even hear one of those maple body ASAT's. I've never played a maple body instrument before and am intrigued about the harmonic content of that particular wood. I would imagine it's very bright sounding.

Yow, we had a place in town here that had a burger similar to the cheese filled one you talked about today. It was called a Juicy Lucy.

Boy, am I glad to see some else do some of the weird things that I do! Fender has a beautiful leather strap (Black) that comes with the American Deluxe Series. I have purchased one of these for almost each of the guitars. I also have some great Levy's leather ones. I must have 45-50 straps. Several extras are laying around. I do not store guitars in cases but store the strap in each case. I also have Schaller Strap Locks on almost all of the guitars. I don't know how many of you are familiar with the Gretsch strap buttons but they are the first thing I change out. In addition all but the Gretches and a couple of others have either Schaller or Sperzel locking tuners. The PRS has its own locking tuners. I have all the paperwork for each guitar in a file cabinet organized with numbers on the Ziplock bag giving the number and location on the case shelf for the correct case for each guitar. If for some unseen reason I check out, Ginny will be able to figure all this out. Looks like we have some similar tics. Yow, I will have a cold one on that!!!

I only have BBE G&Ls. I love them all. I have to confess that I have been taking the F-100 Return into the garage and amping up. Boy is it an animal and do I love it. Maybe I will get weak and gig it sometime. It is so versatile. I do not really have a favorite but the Z-3 with the Bigsby and the F-100 Return are top contenders. The Legacys are also perfect. What can I say. Boy, this is cheap entertainment for a guy like me. The cats are entertained when they watch me doing all this work on guitars and guitar stuff. Sometimes they clear out when I fire up the amps.

Yow, if I would have had a collection like you have at the age that you are, I would have been in big trouble by now. I started this mess less than 10 years ago. Ginny would have had me in guitar AA a long time ago. Just this morning, I played the Candy Red (boring) Legacy that I hadn't tried for some time. I smiled at Ginny and said "boy is she sweet". Ginnys reply "I heard that yesterday, and the day before, and the day before that". Maybe I do have time for another cold one! Darwin

I am curious how much of the sound of old G&Ls is a mental thing, opposed to something that is there.

The mental thing might definitely be of influence. That why a '59 Burst sound much better that any other guitar right? For me it's easy enough to A/B older and newer models and I have to agree with Will on his assessment about of the oldies sounding warmer and resonating more. This does not necessarily mean that is the sound somebody is looking for. Nor does it mean that a new model cannot age into a similar thing. Time will tell.

- Jos

The funny thing is a LOT of scientists are heavily into music, probably to counterbalance the 'order and control' parts of their personalities. Paralysis by analysis is a well known scientific affliction.

Or the mathematical nature of music speaks to us . I do not have OCD tendancies, and I am ' a scientist' guess I lucked out.

I found Belltown to be a very inviting little part of the city, so I am hoping that you mention a place that rings a bell. Ouch. Accidental pun...

You should know that 'Two Bells' is practically our company bar. PopCap is in the black building on the north side of Battery and many of my colleagues lunch there every day and/or spend many after office hours there. You should see some videos people made ...

- Jos

My favorite of the bunch was the Interceptor. Liked it so much I once sold it and then bought it back.

Every time I see a picture of that model I am amazed by how cool it looks. The Interceptor is not really my cup-o'-tea but that is not the point. It is an amazingly piece to behold. No wonder you want to buy it back! Thanks for the pics zombywoof. Exactly what I hoped would happen.

- Jos

With the Leo era instruments, are they all 'better' then the BBE era ones, or are the examples owned by various people just excellent examples? I'd love to try one out. Surely there are some out there that aren't as good as others.

Good question! Undoubtedly there is self-selection going on here too. Most if not all of us are into G&L's because we ran across a great sounding example. And then we might have discovered that with G&L's the probability of running into a great sounding example is just a little higher than with many other guitar companies but particularly compared to Fender (as a builder of similar models). So when you become a member of a forum full of enthusiasts it is expected that you predominantly read great tone reports.

It amazes me that people have been on forums like this since the '90s. I've only become acquainted with the internet in the last 2 years! Prior to that I only ever used the internet for email.

I still remember the days of file servers where people would put out all sort of stuff. As a Pat Metheny fan, I remember somebody had compiled a complete list of recordings which I have used to find some gems. Being in academia as a student/grad student/post-doc starting in the end of the '80 you were well connected and you used programs like Kermit, ftp, and early browsers like Mosaic (which later became Netscape). Things have come a long way since DARPA net.

BTW Jamie, for bigger pictures see this post in the G&L Porn thread.

- Jos

Last edited by yowhatsshakin on Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

As for the non-G&L Q, most of the scientists I know are borderline OCD.

I hate to admit it but it's true. I'm a scientist, and though kids have cured me of being OCD, I'm still very heavily into details and order.

Will and Philby, I didn't know you guys knew me so well.

- Jos

I'm more of a grab bag kind of guy with my guitars. Most of my electrics have Dunlop strap locks and for them I only use my Action Straps Blackheart which I bought long before their current prices. For my acoustics and my Gibson ES-135 I use a black 2.5" Moody strap (again bought when their prices were MUCH cheaper). Both straps are currently very pricey, but GREAT--very nice leather, super durable and comfortable. Picks: Snarling Dog Brain picks--0.88, 0.73, or 0.60 depending on the tune. Been using the Brain picks for a couple of years and love them. I keep a tin (12 count) of each size and have only recently had to replenish my stock. Burgers: your squirty ones sound pretty good!

Since I haven't been posting much this year, here's an old snapshot of my '98 ASAT Special (still own it) with my copy of the first edition of Rolling Stone (I do collect some stuff ).



[And if I could play like Monty Montgomery I'd have an easy out from the programming world.]

--GDub

Last edited by GDub on Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Boy, am I glad to see some else do some of the weird things that I do!

Darwin, I had already noticed that we seemed to be like minded. If I had the wall space, I would use it. When my collection was about 8 guitars, I even bought a new guitars stand with each new guitar and had them all out in the music room. But with the collection growing, that was just eating up floor space. And storing the guitars in a case adds some safety and protection. I am very happy with my current routine. I have my 'Guitar of the Week' (the ASAT III this week) where I leave the case on my workbench so it's easy to grab the guitar and play. Similar to you, I have a file cabinet with all the paperwork, a spreadsheet with entries for each instrument and piece of gear and how much I spent on it, and a web site.

Yow, I will have a cold one on that!!! ...
... Maybe I do have time for another cold one! Darwin

Cheers buddy!! Here's to you!

- Jos

Since I haven't been posting much his year, here's an old photo of my '98 ASAT Special (still own it) with my copy of the first edition of Rolling Stone (I do collect some stuff ).

Another great looking guitar. Is that flame on the neck? Or is it even Bird's Eye? Nice to have the first edition of RS. Apparently you keep it in the dark since I do not spot any discoloration. Better than you being kept in the dark

- Jos

Jos, that burger sounds wonderful! My favorite place for burgers lately has been Ted's Montana Grill, it's a chain but they have some of the best burgers around, and you can get them as bison rather than beef, delicious and a lot less fat.

As for the non-G&L question, I have 3 guitars, all have their own strap. The exception is I have one nice suede strap from Franklin straps that I share for gigs, it's just more comfortable. I've been using Dunlop Tortex picks for a long time now, but they are all over the place! under the bed, in the wash, in the couch, and sometimes in the case

Having just recently purchased my first Leo era G&L I have to say there is a difference. Both of my electric guitars are asat specials of similar weight, the leo era being slightly lighter. The leo era I own is ash, not maple, and still there is more complexity to the tone. It could be the age of the wood, or the pickups (leo era - hand wound/less windings... iirc) maybe the combination plus a little mojo mixed in! Not sure, but there is an audible difference. That being said, I prefer the neck on the bbe era asat and find I play it more often. Both asats sound great, but I prefer the tone of the Leo era asat.

Now if I could put the neck from the bbe on the Leo...

I have not yet played/heard a maple bodied g&l, looking forward to it someday.

-Dave

I do keep a strap, pick and polishing cloth in each of my guitar cases, though I'm typically sitting when I practice at home, so the extra straps are probably overkill. As for gigging, I'm a bass player and tend to haul a double gig bag and my "trick bag" full of all the crap I may need (tuner, cables, folding Hercules stand, SansAmp, etc.) in a separate bag. I have one really nice strap in there. The gig bag doesn't have a lot of room for accessories, which is fine because I couldn't possibly fit all that crap in there anyway. I do keep a polishing cloth in each gig bag though (I have a double and a single).

Like you, I started buying BBE era instruments and several years ago became obsessed (well, maybe not obsessed, but close) with the Leo era stuff. Fell in love with the L-1000 and F-100 and now own two of the former and three of the latter. Don't have a current pic of the F-100s, but the L-1Ks go a little something like this:


'80 hog/ebony on the left, '81 ash/ebony on the right. Not the best pic, but you get the idea.

I don't know what it is about 'em, but for my money the L-1000 was Leo's crowning achievement in the low end arena. Every time I see one up for sale, it's about all I can do to resist. I did own an L-2000E for a brief time, but the controls were just a bit too busy for me and I'm not real big into active electronics (all the F-100s are passive models -- can't even imagine the damage the E-Series must be capable of).

Great posts so far this week, Yo. I'm envious of your Broadcasters. The guitar player in my band was using one for awhile but had to give it back to the boyfriend she ditched. I think she really misses it ... not so much the guy, though.

My experience with pre-BBE and BBE G&Ls is very similar to Dave_P's. I have 2 G&L guitars and an L-2000. The BBE G&L is my LE and the pre-BBE is my 1991 SC-3. Between the two I very slightly prefer the neck on the LE, but I thought the SC-3 to sound more focused. Both guitars have the S500 pickup set, but the similarity ends there. The LE is semi-hollow mahogany with an ebony fretboard, and the SC-3 is maple with rosewood. Those factors may very well contribute to the tonal difference I hear. So I guess I have to conclude that both are excellent and there is no strong evidence to say the pre-BBE instrument is better.

Your question got me to thinking I should do a side-by-side comparison between my two guitar with the same amp or amps. That sounds like a fun thing to do for a weekend afternoon some time.

I don't have a recording of the SC-3, but I did record the lead part of this version of Sleepwalk with the LE.

Kit