Tuesday Lunch Report 10-12-10

Good morning,

Thanks for all the replies yesterday.

Lunch for me today will be an Amy's veggie burrito (maybe two), with a SanPellegrino sparkling orange to drink. I've been enjoying these lately, no HFCS or artificial coloring etc.etc., which makes me happy, its tasty enough that I might be tempted to drink it even if it had Soylent green as an ingredient




Even though I've been playing guitar for about 30 years and I might have called myself a guitarist all that time , it's only been the last 5 or so years that I've really learned what it takes to get that tone experience I had been craving all those years.
It's hard to admit at times , but I didn't understand the importance of proper intonation until about 5 years ago. Once I got a handle on the concept I was able to set-up guitars that just didn't sound right in the upper register ( I had just thought that the guitar wasn't built well ),
and all of a sudden I was in tune (most of the time) and could play sweet sounds that didn't fight against each other.
This led to learning about the facets of a good set-up and I was excited about playing music again.
I bought a few tube amps and again my musical world opened up again. I was excited to play and practice. For the first twenty or so years I always had some crappy solid state amp with a chain of effects and I didn't know any better.
When I talk to folks who want to take up guitar one of the first things I do is make sure they understand the importance of a properly set-up guitar . I've paid people to set-up my instruments before I learned myself and it was hit or miss. I probably sold instruments that had a set-up that wasn't ideal for me that I would have kept and loved if I had known more about tweeking action,intonation,etc.

Do you do your own set-ups? It becomes fairly easy after the initial learning curve which will probably include a little frustration ( like most learning)...but the "AHA !" moments are a joy.


If you have a guitar tech do your set-ups, do they ask you questions like "how hard to you pick","what kind of music will you be playing", etc. ? If they don't it's a good idea to volunteer this information...it will also give you an idea of how much the guy/girl knows and how interested they are in setting your instrument up for you. Otherwise you are likely to receive your instrument with a set-up that is good for them and their style.

My latest "AHA" moment was when trying to help a guitarist in my band with his tone.
He has been using my Swart SST with a squire strat that I gutted and fitted with fender CS69's and a Seymour Duncan SSL-5 bridge pickup. I added a G&L PTB circuit to it and she plays and sounds fantastic, but at practice his tone was good clean but it lacked punch,crunch, and sustain...even if I dimed the preamp volume and adjusted the master to suit the room.
He bought a cheap reissue tubescreamer to help with solo tones but it was just getting muddy tones most the time. I brought in a clean boost the next week, dimed it at about 15db boost , opened the master volume almost all the way and used the preamp volume to suit the room and Voila...sustain, bite, not much mud... I knew that Swart SST had it in it but it took some tinkering to find out where the magic was.

Is there any Eureka moments that you can share that might help others?
I wish I could have known half of what I know now when I started playing guitar years ago, I'm sure I would have practiced and played more. So if you have any tidbits of knowledge that might keep the excitement factor up let's hear them.

Have you ever given a guitar to a friend in need ?
I would have a few more G&L's if I didn't, but no regrets. One of my friends who is an avid Alice in Chains fan and musician helped me move , he saved my butt with the help he gave me so I gave him a red Rampage I had...that was years ago and he still raves about how much he loves it. I also gave my brother a late 80's white (now off white) SC-3 years ago...he told me recently that he still plays it everyday and is amazed at the tones ( and I bet he is playing it unplugged most the time ). Gotta love hearing how G&L's keep giving joy throughout the years.

Besides playing music I occasionally enjoy painting abstract paintings. What other forms of art do you indulge in, either as a participant or an observer ?
I know I've seen some fantastic photos here that are worthy of a gallery (at least for guitar/bass fanatics)

Here is a picture of one my paintings, I was experimenting with Jackson Pollock type of application.




...and some random ASAT shots to round out todays report.
Cheers!

One of the best sounding ASAT's I've had...I'm not left handed and decided it belonged in the hands of a Lefty


Another ASAT I sold...a wonderful guitar in every way


My Blackie ASAT with bartolini pickups...an '85 I think, my poorman's broadcaster :


Here is my heavily relic'ed '86 ASAT, it must be southern swamp ash, because she is pretty light : )


Thanks for stopping by today, I look forward to your replies.
Elwood

Lunch today was a chicken taco salad from a little local chain.
Very fresh ingredients made by a bunch of grandmas in the kitchen.
Yummy.

I got into doing setups when I worked at a music store in college.
I did not know more much than the customers but I soon learned. I was smart enough not to take
chances and if it was over my head they went to the tech we used.
These days I am very comfortable doing anything right up to a full fret job.
I am very fussy about playability and insist my guitars have a very low, buzz free action.
I've bought or traded for a bunch of nice guitars at nice prices. I'm convinced the previous owner
was bummed it did not play like it did when they first got it so they sold/traded it.
All it needed was a setup and some 0000 steel wool to polish the frets.

The coolest tool I've found lately is the Peterson StroboSoft app for my I-pod Touch.
Nearly as accurate as it's big brother, it makes setting intonation a breeze
and tuning on gigs accurate and fast.

Aha moments: No real mountain top moments but little victories along the way. Happy accidents.
I've been too lazy a player to practice in a focused way with a goal in mind.

I have not given guitars away but I did loan an Gibson L-5's to a struggling singer/songwriter for a year or
so. I also make myself available to setup folk's guitars at no charge. I like to encourage them by
given a crappy guitar a new lease on life.

Love your abstract Elwood. Very nice!
I am the art director for a large sign company so I do art all day long...pretty stiff commercial stuff
but art nonetheless. Music is a nice break though I have done a fair amount of wood carving
and watercolor.

I'm a sucker for that San Pellegrino orange stuff too ...

After years of being afraid to touch a truss rod, I finally bought Dan Erlewine's book and realized it wasn't exactly rocket science and that as long as you don't over-crank it (or try to force it when it doesn't want to budge) it wasn't such a risky maneuver. Since then, I figure I've saved enough in setups to buy a guitar or two. Aside from getting the relief right, it's really just a matter of trial and error and being patient when you don't get it exactly right on the first try. I wouldn't advise someone who hasn't done one to attempt a setup just hours before the gig or anything, but I think it's an invaluable skill for any serious guitarist or bassist.

I've gotten pretty good doing bass setups (I'm more a bassist than a guitarist). I sold one recently and the buyer reported back to me to say whoever did the setup did a sweet job. That was nice to hear and it was nice to be able to take credit for it. I feel like my 6-string setups take a bit more time and patience, but then I don't do them as often, and I always wind up getting them where I want them eventually.

I draw the line at fret work. I mean, I typically clean the board and polish the frets (oil the board, etc.) as part of any setup, but I don't do any fret dressing. I think I could probably tackle fret leveling and crowning, but I don't have the tools and haven't been inclined to drop the money on them (and they're the sort I figure I don't want to cheap-out on). So that's one task I'm happy to pay a pro to do. Anyway, it doesn't come up all that often.

Really like that painting, Elwood. Afraid I'm not much of an artist beyond the realm of music, though my talents (such as they are) meander their way into music production as well as performance.

That '86 ASAT is suh-weet looking! Looks like that "relic job" came about through some honest, hard wood-shedding.

Hey Elwood.

Like you I do all my own setups, I started bass at 14, probably starting doing the truss rod at 15, then the bridge radii, then finally intonation at about 19 (didn't even know about it til then). I find something personal in setups, and don't let other people set up my instruments, the exemption being the G&L I picked up today (I had the dealer string it with 9s and set it up as I came in, not to mention he tossed in another set of nines, great guy). Tossed some schaller straplocks on it (would have preferred dunlops as thats what all my others are) but that is what the store had. (pics later, I promise folks). I plan to get fretwork tools, and have no issues working with floating bridges.

I recently bought a mesa boogie mark V after years of playing through a modeler through my basses power amp. Why didn't I have a guitar amp? I gave away the squier strat with the amp I learned on to a friend, also for helping me move one time. The tubes are something fantastic indeed. Even the clean tones rock, I have never practiced more.

The coolest tool I've found lately is the Peterson StroboSoft app for my I-pod Touch.
Nearly as accurate as it's big brother, it makes setting intonation a breeze
and tuning on gigs accurate and fast.

Thanks for the tip...I don't have an I-pod but I can see getting one, or a smart phone of some kind, especially if it'll help get through those times of being out of tune while an audience is waiting. My guitarist has a tuner but he always seems to short a 9 volt battery when it comes to crunch time.

I also make myself available to setup folk's guitars at no charge. I like to encourage them by
given a crappy guitar a new lease on life.

I love turning crap into gold ( reminds me of a Neil Young tune), the Squire I redid for our guitarist was I think 90 dollars new...admittedly I put over $100 of parts into but it plays almost as good as an old G&L. Many of my ebay scores were guitars that needed TLC and a solid set-up,
one thing I found on alot of them is that the pickups were set too high and were choking the sustain.

Love your abstract Elwood. Very nice!
I am the art director for a large sign company so I do art all day long...pretty stiff commercial stuff
but art nonetheless. Music is a nice break though I have done a fair amount of wood carving
and watercolor.

Thanks much! I never know how my abstracts are seen by others. (got any pictures of your carvings or watercolors? )

Aside from getting the relief right, it's really just a matter of trial and error and being patient when you don't get it exactly right on the first try. I wouldn't advise someone who hasn't done one to attempt a setup just hours before the gig or anything, but I think it's an invaluable skill for any serious guitarist or bassist.

Well said.

Really like that painting, Elwood. Afraid I'm not much of an artist beyond the realm of music, though my talents (such as they are) meander their way into music production as well as performance.

That '86 ASAT is suh-weet looking! Looks like that "relic job" came about through some honest, hard wood-shedding.

Thanks for the encouraging words. Your right about the ASAT...it even has a coffee cup stain on the back (I wonder how long it was being used as a coffee table in some musicians squalor)

...the exemption being the G&L I picked up today...(pics later, I promise folks).

I'm looking forward to seeing her, I've never custom ordered a guitar...what a cool experience : )

Even the clean tones rock, I have never practiced more.

I hear ya...

...the exemption being the G&L I picked up today...(pics later, I promise folks).

I'm looking forward to seeing her, I've never custom ordered a guitar...what a cool experience : )
[/quote]

My first real guitar was a Carvin DC135 (I don't count the squier strat I learned on). Followed by a LB75 from them (the red one) and my C66 (sunset burst). So I was not overly used to having to compromise what I like. Hence it seemed natural to custom order the G&L (and even get some unlisted options, like the front contour). They wouldn't give me everything I want, like some shops, but I understand, and I at least got a neck I am comfortable with, and some extra shaping. I didn't haggle with my dealer though, as his quotes were beating most others, and I don't feel I have a right to haggle when he did a bunch of leg work, a few factory calls, and was putting in an order for me. A shelf item with a ding, or not exactly what you want sure, but I feel when you go custom, you have to pony up and eat the price.

50 days it took, out of 90 quoted. G&L is fast, just as quick as a new carvin. In the end the result is what I wanted, I cannot be any happier, infact I am considering not even replacing the pick guard as intended, save the money as it just looks freaking good as is.

So it boils down to, unless the guitar has the exact specs I want on the shelf, which is rare, I will not buy it. The company needs to offer me what I want, or they do not get my business. I will gladly pay more to some luthier, than settle and jeopardize liking the gear over it. I try to make every addition to my stable permanent (minus that 135, it was a learning experience and doesn't quite match what I have grown into). I find it much easier to make permanent bonds with guitars that are literally mine, unique and for me.

Hey Elwwood -
I'm time-limited today, but I'm just checking in to say that I am HUGELY impressed by your artwork. I'd love to see more. Wow! - ed
BTW: '86 ASATs really do rule, as you are no doubt well aware......

Elwood, you have hit a home run today!

I had lunch today also. It was an unhealthy old fashion Hot Roast Beef sandwich with Mashed Pot. and gravy. I didn't need a to go box!

My exposure to art is very limited as many of you may have concluded by now. Your abstract is very interesting and I like it! It took some time to put all that together. If a person is going to have a relic guitar, yours would have to be a classic with the coffee mug stain. There has probably been some smart talk around this guitar.

You really got my attention when you ask about setups. My guitars have all been setup by me at least once and others several times. Measurements are important as a reference and I wouldn't consider it set up until that had been done. Radius is important as is intonation and I use a strobe tuner for intonation.
I have been doing fretwork but I am getting ready to order the basic fretwork kit from Stewmac. I have been doing it with a straight edge and flat files and then dress. I think this kit will make it easier. If anyone has experience with this kit, please let me know if there is another way that would be better. My Gretsch 6121 Nashville is starting to show fretware. They are the narrow, vintage frets and wear faster than medium jumbo or jumbo. I may attempt to replace the first 12 with the equivalent stainless steel fret. The fact that it is a bound neck makes it more difficult. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it and it would be cheap. This is not the case. I Will let everyone know how my first fret replacement works out. Maybe there will be a pristine guitar with questionable fret in the Marketplace. Anyone have a Les Paul Custom that you want me to practice on???

I am also getting more into dialing my amp in. There is always room for improvement in this ole boy.

Thanks for the great pics today. ---Darwin

Last edited by darwinohm on Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hey Elwood,

Nice Art & Axes! Have to agree your '86 ASAT is RAD.

I agree - setups make a world of difference.
I pretty much do my own setups tho I'm not keen on truss rod adjustments. I also can't be bothered to make nuts, file frets etc...
I take my guitars to Mike Lull. Shameless plug -http://www.mikelull.com
I've known Mike nearly 20 years so he know my setup preferences and what I like. He's a great guy, does Fab work and he has a PLEK...

Any guitar I like well enough to keep for some time goes to Mike for a bone nut. Helps with sustain and eliminates tuning instability.
I think alot people discount the nut and blame tuning issues on the tuners...
A properly cut nut is crucial for intonation too.


Not much to add most folks here seem pretty well informed.
A few things, imo...

Learning something new is one of the best ways to remedy playing plateaus and keep the excitement factor up.

Playing with others (esp those better than you) is the best way to improve your playing... That and recording yourself and listening back to it.

And proly obvious - you'll tend to play better (and more) the better your sound is.


I can't say I have. Good on you. They say giving rewards the giver.

Cool piece of art!
I enjoy being creative...
Other than with music and guitars, I draw & write abit. Over the years, I've enjoyed putting together guitars (see below). I'm probably most creative with Reflexology as its a very creative form of healing work.

Here's a pic of my old messy flat in San Diego...

On the floor is a partially assembled ASAT I threw together from Leo-era parts...

[timage=][/timage]

It turned out pretty well tho it was too light compared to my other ASATs...
I've grown used to a certain amount of heft...

Nice Report today! I most likely won't be here for manana's but will check back later in the week...

CHeers,

Kf

Figured I'd dime back in here, as I just finished setting up my beauty after the first day.

Action 3/64 bass side, a bit low on treble side, neck relief around .09 .010. Plays like butter. I had the supplier put strings on it for me (9-42s) and if that was his idea of a setup I have buzz up and down the neck. I guess he just figured he'd make me do my own sooner. Either way it is currently done and good to go. RAR.

Love Pelligrino, not tried orange variety yet, will look for it.

Do you do your own set-ups?
If you call it a set-up I do most of my own with an occasional local tech assuring me all is ok with my guitar. Would like to become more proficient, will eventually get Erlewine's book.

FANTASTIC painting, show more. Do you have a web site showing them and do you sell them at local art shows? You should.

Love the ASAT's, haven't see n bartolini's in a while, nice mod.

Hey Elwwood -
I'm time-limited today, but I'm just checking in to say that I am HUGELY impressed by your artwork. I'd love to see more. Wow! - ed
BTW: '86 ASATs really do rule, as you are no doubt well aware......

Thanks Ed !
I titled that "Tears fall and burn in garden green"...I spent a day or two visualizing and mixing paints ...it turned out close to my visualization...imagine that ; )
I'll post a bunch on photobucket and send you a link.

Here's one more in the meantime.:

Any guitar I like well enough to keep for some time goes to Mike for a bone nut. Helps with sustain and eliminates tuning instability.

I love bone nuts, I've made a few from brass , but bone has a nice balance of density and resonance. I still have a bunch of blanks, when I run out I might have to pick a new favorite material as I have been trying to reduce the amount of animal derived products I support.

Reflexology is very interesting, I went to an acupuncturist to help me deal with a Hiatal (sp?) hernia a couple years ago...it peaked my interest in the network of channels that runs through our bods.

The ASAT looks great ! I'll be posting picture of my frankenG&L's on Thurs.
have a good evening.

My Gretsch 6121 Nashville is starting to show fretware. They are the narrow, vintage frets and wear faster than medium jumbo or jumbo. I may attempt to replace the first 12 with the equivalent stainless steel fret.

My Mosrites have those little frets ...once they wear down it will be close to fretless .

I've only put frets on a couple guitars so I'm right in the middle of the learning curve. Eventually I'll have to buy or make a radius machine...I think I used a couple old records (12" and circular)
with clamps to run the fretwire around until the metal conformed to my wishes...not the best way I'm sure, but necessity is the mother of invention. I didn't use a drop of glue as I have heard is the convention...that might have helped with the one or two fret ends that popped up on my first refret job ( it was a cheap vietnamese acoustic ) ...even so it plays better than it did when I got it. I had to re-radius the whole fretboard on that one.

see ya tomorrow!

FANTASTIC painting, show more. Do you have a web site showing them and do you sell them at local art shows? You should.

Love the ASAT's, haven't see n bartolini's in a while, nice mod.

Thanks Alot Sam !

I'll post a link to more in the off topics section once I upload some to photobucket.
I used to do turkish marbling and these are a study in combining some marbling ideas on canvas with acrylics.
I have never sold a painting, that would tickle me pink...thanks again for the inpiring words...I'll have to start thinking seriously about hanging some in local coffehouses etc.

The ASAT came with the Barts...it nails the LP sound pretty well with all that added G&L mojo.
I think its a 25" radius, I could be wrong but it feels pretty flat.
Did they make non-Broadcasters with the 25" fretboards?

See ya tomorrow I hope....Elwood

Figured I'd dime back in here, as I just finished setting up my beauty after the first day.

Action 3/64 bass side, a bit low on treble side, neck relief around .09 .010. Plays like butter. I had the supplier put strings on it for me (9-42s) and if that was his idea of a setup I have buzz up and down the neck. I guess he just figured he'd make me do my own sooner. Either way it is currently done and good to go. RAR.

Well you know what they say "If you want something done right..."
Congrats...that is a country machine with attitude ...I really like the black pickguard on orange, is it plastic or metal? I 've found I like the three ply plastic (with shielding) for some guitars , especially if weight is an issue.
I figure you have seen the Tone-Guard website, but in case you hadn't it's worth mentioning,
Wayne does some good work there.

have a good evening,

Hey Elwood.

Please give me a heads-up if you ever get a hankering to sell some of your art. - ed

Hey Elwood.

Please give me a heads-up if you ever get a hankering to sell some of your art. - ed

That'd be a pleasure, I'll send you a PM and I bet we can work something out.
All my best,
Elwood

Elwood, that second painting of yours is magnificent. Kind of scary too. I love it, great choice of colours and great execution.

I had an AHA! moment with a clean boost pedal too. I used it with my trusty old Laney LC30, it made that thing sing. It already had a great sound (I swapped the original speaker out for a Celestion AlNiCo Gold, expensive but great) and the clean boost served to give it more heat, it had a real searing hot sound. Another moment came when I turned the gain down. I, like a lot of people, started out playing heavy metal. I have gradually used less and less gain as well as fewer effects and now hear my guitars a lot more clearly than before.

I also do my own setups. There isn't a whole lot that can go wrong, if you're careful. An 1/8th turn too far in one direction is much easier to rectify than a whole turn. I have only ever paid for a setup once before, on a Fender strat I used to own. I had set it up beautifully myself and sent it off to get some pickups installed (at the time I had no idea how to solder things). When it came back it was set up with far heavier strings than it went in with, the action was way higher and the angle of the bridge was far too severe - the rear of it pointed too far out from the body. I had to pay for the setup at a store who outsourced the work to a guitar builder in a different suburb. I couldn't get my money back for the setup and even if I sent it back I would have been without a guitar for two weeks - that's how long it took for him to get around to doing anything on it. I learned a valuable lesson and have saved hundreds in the last few years by doing it myself.

Elwood, that second painting of yours is magnificent. Kind of scary too. I love it, great choice of colours and great execution.

Thanks alot ! you guys are inspiring me to do more.

Another moment came when I turned the gain down.

I was surprised that the sound was (much) better ( and even heavier) with my Swart with the Master Volume up almost all the way up and the first volume lowered some.I'd been doing just the opposite figuring I'd hit the power tubes as hard as I could to get a hotter sound... I was wrong but I'm happy to be smarter
I love learning new tricks !

Thanks for chiming in !

Figured I'd dime back in here, as I just finished setting up my beauty after the first day.

Action 3/64 bass side, a bit low on treble side, neck relief around .09 .010. Plays like butter. I had the supplier put strings on it for me (9-42s) and if that was his idea of a setup I have buzz up and down the neck. I guess he just figured he'd make me do my own sooner. Either way it is currently done and good to go. RAR.

Well you know what they say "If you want something done right..."
Congrats...that is a country machine with attitude ...I really like the black pickguard on orange, is it plastic or metal? I 've found I like the three ply plastic (with shielding) for some guitars , especially if weight is an issue.
I figure you have seen the Tone-Guard website, but in case you hadn't it's worth mentioning,
Wayne does some good work there.

have a good evening,

Plastic, stock, a metal one might be some time down the road though, add some weight to the body and counter the slight neck dive.

Elwood, your paintings are very impressive. What media do you work in, is it oil? And what size are these paintings? And finally, what do you do with your work?

I have some minimal artistic instincts. When I was a teenager I used to like to do pencil drawings, and when I was around 30 I got into doing stained glass and have done some that are composites of 200 cut pieces. I mostly gave the glasses away, but I took pictures, although I don't know if I can find the pictures. Nowadays I just enjoy taking photographs every once in a while. You, on the other hand, is definitely an artist.

Kit

Elwood, your paintings are very impressive. What media do you work in, is it oil? And what size are these paintings? And finally, what do you do with your work?

I have some minimal artistic instincts. When I was a teenager I used to like to do pencil drawings, and when I was around 30 I got into doing stained glass and have done some that are composites of 200 cut pieces. I mostly gave the glasses away, but I took pictures, although I don't know if I can find the pictures. Nowadays I just enjoy taking photographs every once in a while. You, on the other hand, is definitely an artist.

Kit

Thanks Kit,
I've done a couple stained glass projects in high school...really a fun and challenging meduim that lasts forever if well cared for. I hope you find some pictures.
My paintings are all waterbased, a mix of quality acrylics and gouache. I will have to try oils with the odorless turpentine as a thinner...fumes were the reason I opted towards waterbased media.

Elwood

Great job on the report, Elwood.

I have been doing my own setups since the late 70's.
I have always enjoyed that part of playing guitar and bass.

My setups are to my playing style so I may not do the right thing for someone else, but they will always sound better as a result of my work.

Setting intonation and action on an instrument is a very important part of playing IMHO.

Very nice painting. Good luck with your art.