Lunch Report Wednesday Oct 6 2010- Lowender Day

I could not start this day without my kudos to Ken Baker for a class act on the Bass Forum. He is a wealth of information, has a sense of humor and I would be disappointed if he were just a young whippersnapper. I intend to visit his forum more frequently in the future. So, I am going to ramble a bit today.

Lunch is unknown today but yesterday I was out very early and we had a horrendous appetite by 11:00 AM. I was primed for on old fashioned Minnesota Hot Beef sandwich but had to settle for a breakfast as lunch wasn't available until 11:30. You can bet that we didn't leave and we got into breakfast big time. Lets not talk about calories. Are you getting the sense that my life is not structured??

Bass Ramblings For Lowender Day

G&L Content:

Another picture of my L 2000 Fretless.

I had mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I may try to get a fretted neck for this one. It has killer tone and I love the wood/color. Fretless is not for everything but is great for some material. It has an ebony board.


Now for the rambling. We all started somewhere and some of you have already shared that. I was a young dude in 1961 and played a novice guitar. A fellow that I worked with asked me if I could sit with his band one weekend as a Bass player. Bass what????? As some of you know the 60's were a crazy , prime time in the rock and roll business and I quickly discovered that this was a great way to meet girls. Yep, I borrowed a Framis Beetle style bass from a friend and I was into it. I bought that Framis bass and I have never looked back. Back then cars were not air conditioned during the hot summer and I opened the case at a gig and the neck raised up with lid on the case. The glue joint had let loose. I had my Gibson ES 125 TDC along that evening and we were bassless. I had been using an old Gibson amp and the speaker didn't last long playing bass through it. Now Leo Fender was a pioneer in the solid body bass but most amps couldn't hold up to it. I couldn't afford a Bassman but in 1962 I financed a Gibson EBO Bass and a new Fender Bassman. Now I am in fat city. Our PA systems were terrible but no matter what you played through and sang through, if it sounded decent, with a beat, things were cooking. What a time in my life!!! We broke up in late 1965 and reunited in 2000. Two of our current band members are from our original group. So, that is how I became a bass player and borderline suave with the ladies.
Lets hear form you folks what tripped the trigger for you!!!!!!

More Rambling-Non G&L.

Some of you may remember that my grandfather, Olof Ohman discovered the Kensington Runestone on his farm near Kensington MN in 1898. This has also been a subject in the recent film titled Holy Grail In America on the History Channel. I happen to be in that film but here is where I am going with this. A Rune, called the Hooked X is very significant Rune on the Runestone and is certainly significant in determining the Runestone is a medieval artifact. So here is the story. Two years ago I am perusing the local GC and I pick up this new Stingray 5 HH bass and look at it. It was a beauty and I turned it over and looked at the back. I couldn't believe my eyes as the figuring on the back was very unusual. There were hooked X's on it much like the Kensington Runestone. Now Ginny has heard a lot of reasons why I need the next guitar. I came home and gave her the story about the Runestone guitar and you could not imagine the look!!! This bass is hanging on the wall and here are the pictures to prove it. As you say, no pictures , no guitar. That is my story and I am still sticking to it. Ginny has heard them all. If you have new ideas, send them my way!






Last subject today is your bass picking style. There has been a lot of discussion on picking styles for guitar but for bass, I haven't seen much. Maybe I need to hang out on the Bass Forum more. I am a thumb and 1 & 2nd finger picker. I also use fingers to mute a string when I move to another note. Boy, am I loosing you? I saw a picture of Bassman and it looks like he is not a thumb player and rests his thumb and uses fingers. Our new bass player is an outstanding country player. He uses his first finger and does a short slap to mute the sustain of the string he has just plucked. It is great for country. I would love to learn slap bass. Considering that we play old rock and old country this would not be of great use but it would be neat to throw in a slap once in the while to get their attention. Also I suspect that I am a thumb picker because I first played regular guitar. One of the gals in one of our bands once asked me how I decided which finger to use or when I would use my thumb. I think she got confused by watching me. My answer was "I don't have a clue". Maybe this winter I will run into someone who can cultivate me as a slapper. I see a lot of young dudes slapping at the CG. I always view the Bass and Drums as setting the groove for the band and I had never considered the bass as a solo act. I was at an Emmy Lou concert four years ago when she had Barney Miller as her lead player. The Bass player and the Drummer did a solo and it blew everyone away. That I will never accomplish but what are your thoughts on bass pickin'. Are you a slapper, picker (use a pick), thumb or finger picker??????

Thank you for hanging in there through all this. Magic and Sam thank you for the kind comments that have come their way. Tomorrow we will get in to parts guitars , modifications and what ever else we can come up with and I will show you my idea of a sweet parts guitar, that I have built. Thanks--- Darwin

Hey Darwin,

Lowenders eh, picking styles. A big can of worms there. I play Finger style primarily, using 3 fingers, I play thumb and finger when convinient. I also play both slap and double thumb (see victor wooten, using open hammer pluck a bunch).

Finger style I used as I play a lot of Rush, or did in my teens I still do to relax. The quick style requires me to use what is apparently called 'floating thumb'. The thumb drifts over the low strings muting as I move around. I had never heard it called that and came to it on my own buying a 5 string as a ringing B was something terrible. Then I looked up the term as I saw it a few times and realized that was what I am doing. If I am playing quick runs, this is what I do. I like to grow a bit of nail for some extra punch on the attack.

Thumb and finger is when I am playing more musical stuff, chordal work with pedal notes, arpeggios etc. I like to keep movement too a minimum and go from there. If I am doing slow string alternation, like say Harris in Iron Maiden, I may also use my thumb and finger there, or 2 fingers. Faster stuff I stuff with the fingers.

Slap and Double thumb are something I did a lot of playing in a band. I was practicing a lot more back then and motivated. I used them not stand alone, but for dynamic emphasis on parts. I was playing in a progressive alternative band. You have to be careful with EQ and volume on these ones. I had to stop for a good while as I had RSI in my thumbs. I am cleaned up of what was 'Chronic tendinitis' through alternative methods (straightening my body up well fixed what physio and doctors could not), and have recently started taking them back up again. I am not as quick on them as I used to be, but hey it has been about 2 weeks and I can still beat the heck out of it at 120 bpm so I should count my blessings.

Heck I 2 hand tap too, think Stu Hamm, I enjoy playing his tapping arrangements. Linus and Lucy still evades me though, I can't keep em moving in sync like that.

Last Pick. This is not something I use often, and never in solo playing. I can use one though, very proficiently. I have very good alternate picking skills on guitar, and moderate hybrid picking ability. So if I ever need that extra zing, it is available.


Bass as rhythm or bass as instrument eh? At least that is how I look at it. I play the bass as if it were more than the groove, it is an instrument by its own right and should contribute to much more than the rhythm section. I have found times when melodically tapping arpeggios will do a lot more than playing a root, when slaps and some blistering bursts will knock a feeling sky high. At minimum small fills around and through the roots. So as you can see, most guitarists will tell me I overplay a lot. My bass playing in my previous group was extremely appreciated, we were a really meaty 3 piece. You can limit yourself to the groove, but really that is what you achieving, the minimum, the limit. This is my stance on it. I think this guy agrees.
[youtube]j6LrVQwtcpI[/youtube]
as does this one (albeit this guy just don't play fair, I doubt we will ever see another like him)
[youtube]jVQEe8OI3zk[/youtube]

Edit: Couldn't resist adding this, 3 bassists taking turns doing just about everything.
[youtube]mrav_MSMjNs[/youtube]

I can't play slap for crap. Fortunately, it doesn't come up much. Well, never actually. I know my limits.

When I first picked up the bass with the intent of playing it in a band (I'd become a competent rhythm guitarist and had plucked around on bass with a pick) I was determined to play finger style. I think when I started I could only really use my index finger. I worked my butt off to get to the point where I could alternate between index and middle, but once that clicked I developed some pretty good speed and facility. I tend to mute with my fretting hand and have never gotten comfortable with the floating thumb technique. Despite all my attempts, it's just never felt right to me.

Strangely, after all these years I've come to a point where I don't really have a consistent technique. Most of the time I'm using the two-finger style, but now and then I find myself just plucking with my index finger (hey, it worked for James Jamerson!). Really depends on the song. Then there's the band where I actually use a pick now and again. I switch back and forth a lot (sometimes between different parts of the same song), so I use a thumb pick in that band. That's something that was a huge revelation to me when I thought of it. Seems like it wouldn't be so uncommon, but to date I've never seen (or heard of) anyone else doing this. Not saying I'm an innovator or anything, mind you. Probably, I just need to get out more.

Thanks for throwing the low-enders a bone, Darwin! That's a beauty of a 2K you've got there.

I tend to mute with my fretting hand and have never gotten comfortable with the floating thumb technique. Despite all my attempts, it's just never felt right to me.

Good point there, I mute everything Above the thumb with my fret hand, everything below shouldn't need muting (but the thumb can be flattened across it all). My approach is more using strings as thumb rests, than a proper floating thumb where it dangles on top.

The thumb pick is unique , I have never seen that before. Cool stuff. I stand by there is no wrong way to play an instrument, it is all about context and vision.

I can't consider myself a lowender. Around 2003 I bought myself a cheap Fernandes bass so I can add bass to recordings I was making. I figured that I should try to learn to play it at least somewhat like a bass player does and so I worked on playing mostly alternating between index and middle finger. I don't play enough bass to be any good at it, and I have yet to learn how to slap (or is that snap?) I was recording a version of Sleepwalk a few years ago, and when it came to recording the bass I found that I like the sound of it when I played it using the nail on my index finger like a pick; that is the only time I ever played the bass that way.

A couple of years ago I ran across a tremendous deal on a US G&L L-2000 that I can't pass up. The Fernandes is now sold as I don't ever see needing more than one bass.







Your rune story is quite interesting. I have heard of runestone before but do not know anything about the subject. After reading your Kensington story I googled the topic and found it quite fascinating.

I greatly enjoyed lunch report today. Thank you.

Kit

Kit, great looking L 2000. I would like to try an L 2500 as I like 5 string. The Kensington Runestone is an interesting artifact. I has recently been determined that is most probably an artifact from 1362. It had been thought of as a hoax by many for the last 100 years. No doubt in my mind that it is the real thing. If you get a chance catch "Holy Grail In America" on the History Channel when it is shown. It is a 2 hour show. Thanks---Darwin.

Eee gads! What a busy day...not even time for lunch.

I mainly use my pointer and middle finger when playing...alternating the two. I will sometimes use my thumb to add a slight slap accent. I am no slap/pop funk bassist by no means. Mark White did tell me to treat the slap like the bass drum and the pop like the snare. If the original song calls for it...I will use a pick.

More Mark White! He has a multitude of techniques...

Chicken Pickin Funk
[youtube]OSZiauUlODo[/youtube]

[youtube]-NxmYiIvGGc[/youtube]

Double Thumbing...notice he uses the elastic hair bands like Victor Wooten to dampen the strings.
[youtube]lWwx58Axpeg[/youtube]

A very cool Adamovic Fretless bass!
[youtube]pB2YxJ7Vxcw[/youtube]

Don't have anything to contribute to low-enders day but this pic of my L-2500. It wanted some exposure...


- Jos

More Rambling-Non G&L.

Some of you may remember that my grandfather, Olof Ohman discovered the Kensington Runestone on his farm near Kensington MN in 1898. This has also been a subject in the recent film titled Holy Grail In America on the History Channel. I happen to be in that film but here is where I am going with this. A Rune, called the Hooked X is very significant Rune on the Runestone and is certainly significant in determining the Runestone is a medieval artifact. So here is the story. Two years ago I am perusing the local GC and I pick up this new Stingray 5 HH bass and look at it. It was a beauty and I turned it over and looked at the back. I couldn't believe my eyes as the figuring on the back was very unusual. There were hooked X's on it much like the Kensington Runestone. Now Ginny has heard a lot of reasons why I need the next guitar. I came home and gave her the story about the Runestone guitar and you could not imagine the look!!! This bass is hanging on the wall and here are the pictures to prove it. As you say, no pictures , no guitar. That is my story and I am still sticking to it. Ginny has heard them all. If you have new ideas, send them my way!

I've been to Alexandria, MN many times and have seen the Runestone a couple of times. I didn't go to the museum this year when I was up there. Darwin, did you find the G&L dealer in Alexandria?

Sprinter 92

Thanks for the nod, Darwin. Much appreciated.

While we do have a few goofy things over at BassesByLeo, it does tend to be a technical forum. G&L bass support was and is the prime focus, but modding is always near the top of the list.

No need for disappointment. I'm OTD.

That's a nice looking pair of basses you've got there. That G&L neck looks like it came off a good upright. Beautiful.

Here's a return of some images I have floating around. There's even some other-than-G&L pr0n.







Ken...

Sprinter, you mentioned that you been in Alex before. Glad you took a look at the Runestone and check out Minnesota whenever you have a chance. If you are in the cities, stop by. I will be fully retired by Thanksgiving.

Jos, That L-25 has some kind of top. Where are you guys finding these guitars. I really like the Black headstock. Wall art at its finest!

Ken, I am a technical type guy and really like tech forums. Before I did my first Bigsby/Tele project I did a lot of measuring/layout before drilling. After completing it I later found some good info on a Tele forum. There are a lot of things that people have done and all we have to do is find out about it. That Blueburst L 25 that you posted is a beauty. Several of the basses posted today I would love to own. If they are ever up for adoption, I would be a model parent!!! Thanks everyone.--- Darwin.

Fantastic Basses on this thread,

Jos, I'd love to see some close-ups of that top !

Here's a couple shots of my Fretless L-2000 :










....and the L-5000 :







This is my backup bass for gigs, an old L-1000 body, paired with a really nice SB-2 neck :







....and a couple non G&L favorites with graphite necks :











Cheers !

Elwood

Dude, just graphite covered necks or entirely graphite?

Dude, just graphite covered necks or entirely graphite?

Entirely graphite with phenolic fretboards,

Each company has a little different way to the lay up and molds , both the Modulus and Status (on the Namm MusicMan ) necks are pretty solid in construction and feel , I have a Moses strat neck that you can tell has a hollow channel in it, which adds a bit of woodsy resonance and I bet it takes a bit of the brightness away that graphite necks add to the tone equation.

Dude, just graphite covered necks or entirely graphite?

Entirely graphite with phenolic fretboards

That is awesome. I live (and have liveD) beside one great lake or another my life out. So we get dry winters and hot humid summers. Graphite necks/guitars are a good sell to me, as I wouldn't need to tweak the freaking rod 20-30 times a year. (transition seasons I may need to tweak my bass ever so slightly every time I pull it out, as I ride the relief right above where the G gets some backbuzz, and it drives me nuts).

Jos, I'd love to see some close-ups of that top !

You ask and you'll receive. Not the best with a 'flash' star in the middle but it conveys its beauty:

The back is basswood:

Love the absence of dot markers on the ebony board, especially with the black headstock.

BTW, you show some fine instruments yourself too, Elwood! Love these graphite necks. And that beautiful flamed maple neck, OMG (I all of a sudden feel twenty years younger ). I just realized that I have seen many a flamed G&L maple neck whereas there is no upcharge for that (nor is it advertisedas a true option). Bird's Eye maple yes, flamed maple no. This in sharp contrast to for instance PRS where you'll find flamed maple necks only on Private Stock instruments. OK, these will be flamed to the max, but still, there are these hidden beauties on some G&L's where you just luck out.

Jos, That L-25 has some kind of top. Where are you guys finding these guitars. I really like the Black headstock. Wall art at its finest!

I bought this instrument in 2003 from Oklahoma Guitars through eBay. Keep your eyes out, check some favorite websites, and voila ...

- Jos

Where are you guys finding these guitars. I really like the Black headstock. Wall art at its finest!

Well, I orderred my bass and asked for the flame to be chevron patterned, and pointing to the neck, I was then asked "what kind of flame" caught off guitar I said wide. BAM that is how my bass came, for a 50$ upcharge asking for the chevron. The guitar was also a sight unseen build from Carvin. I just said I want a C66 with sunsetburst on it and XXX options. Hence me being lucky (or blessed) with such beautiful things.

I own two Steinbergers to take care of my graphite itch.
The necks are real stable but they are not fool proof. I have heard of the graphite necks warping on occasion. I met a guitarist with a Steinberger guitar that warped and he bought a replacement neck for $300 approx.

On my XP-2 bass, the one with the wood v shaped body, a neck replacement is availble from Moses graphite since Steinberger is just a shell company owned by Gibson and I don't think they still make any solid graphite basses or bass necks. Thankfully, my XP-2 is fine and shows no warping at all.

I recently aquired an original Steinberger bass from 1983. That bass is solid graphite/resin/plastic compond and it sounds fantastic! The EMG pickups used on these originals are different than what was used in the late 80s onwards.
The bass is very hot and it is fun to play.

You ask and you'll receive. Not the best with a 'flash' star in the middle but it conveys its beauty:

Wow, it looks like surface of the sun...Thanks!