Late Night Lunch Report Wed 2-12

Howdy All,
It's early and dark, and I just finished a big veggie burger. Everything from scratch, my favorite recent trick is to roast Pablano peppers over the buns
for the first ten minutes....makes for a nice spicy burger. And I'm finally getting the hang of spanish rice...happy happy
Any neat cooking tricks you guys have come up with?

I've been wanting to do a Lunch Report that asks:

What guitar you have that is deepest in your closet, that hasn't seen light in months or years.

Bonus Points:
Will you dig it out soon and tell us about it?

I'll go spelunking into the closet and see what I forgot about, and report back.
Meanwhile I'm working on a project that has been inching along for over ten years.

These stacked MFD's were bought off ebay 12 or 13 years back.
They are an experimental set that maybe were sold at the factory 'garage sale' in the 90's.
I felt a duty to save them for future G&L enthusiasts. A couple coils were open, but they were in
safe keeping waiting to be rewound with the correct wire and technique. Gabe did a stellar job.
But they need a hardtail G&L with 3 double deep single coil routes.
I'm almost done modding an 80's Invader to accept the set.
Then I'll have to figure out the best switching permutations and circuit (6 coils and 3 ground plates!).
As I understand, these were meant to be in a guitar with a pre-amp. Maybe similar to the Cavalier-E .
I'll go passive until I've played them a bit. That'll be fine for now. I'm eager to hear what they sound like.
...It's been a long road.

Here are the pickups soon after I got them...before they were refurbished
Updated pics coming soon.


The headstock of the invader is blank. What would George and Leo call a guitar with three stacked MFD's?
An S-600? DC(double coil)-300? I was thinking I'd put a decal of some kind on.

I hope to hear about some cool old closet queens you guys might dig out.
I'll post my project pics later today.

Happy Lunch!!
Elwood

Hey Elwood

Great LR.

One should be familiar with the adage to "never burn the garlic". To achieve that I have 2 tips:

• But might it be you forget to do that, use some of the (boiling) water for the pasta to douse it. It will avoid the burning.

The one that is completely stashed away, far and deep into the pile, is the ASAT Classic 'Bluesboy' Mahogany. I bought it because of my project, looks gorgeous, but is not particularly good sounding. The main reason for that is the presence of a Seymour Duncan '59 (SH-1N) in the neck instead of the Seth Lover (SH-2N) usually found on the Bluesboy before G&L started using their own buckers. That '59 is supposed to match well with a hog body but in this configuration it falls flat. Ala,


Those pups are very interesting. As I wrote elsewhere, given the standard construction of the MFD, one might easily come to the conclusion the physics is precluding them to work properly. So I am very interested on how they are put together. Is the bar magnet still at the bottom? And am I correct to asses the soft iron inserts do not reach the bottom? But what a great find!

Regards,

- Jos

Those are amazing pickups; look forward to the end result It appears the magnet is sandwiched between both bobbins; it appears the lower/dummy coil is plumbed with iron poles, and the upper coil has standard hex poles.

My ‘most stored’ guitar is probably my F100 , which for sentimental reasons I’m trying to preserve as best I can. I have maybe three or four guitars that I don’t play much. Ideally I would like to someday, but in truth most of my playing is just at home where it isn’t really necessary to drag out the ‘nice’ ones for the sake of practicing scales and licks. At most I estimate they each get played a half-dozen times a year when I want to record something. Those guitars are mainly my MIJ Jaguar, American Special Jazzmaster, one of my ‘66 Mustangs, and actually my ‘87 SC3 I’m somewhat ashamed to say.

So what do I even play? If I need to grab a guitar or lug one to my guitar lesson, it’s usually either a parts-built Strat with Lace Sensors, either of my Squier Jazzmasters, or ‘90s Mexican Telecaster. They’re all good guitars, but not ones I worry about dinging etc. (I really don’t like ‘relics,’ even if it’s honest wear.) Lately my Jackson Soloist gets a decent amount of play.

... So I am very interested on how they are put together. Is the bar magnet still at the bottom? And am I correct to asses the soft iron inserts do not reach the bottom?

- Jos

Here's a blurb from Gabe, I'll get some good high res pics up soon.

" What you have are two coils…one a nulling/dummy coil that will not be directly impacted by the interruption in the magnetic field. The top coil gets excited since it is positioned under the strings and then the signal will pass through it down to the bottom coil which is what provides the humbucking phenomenon. The coils are wound in an opposite direction when compared to one another. This isn’t really necessary…it is something, however, Leo felt he needed to do.

The magnetic polarities are naturally opposing due to the shared ceramic bar magnet…this is what gets you the humbucking effect.

The series connection (switch in the down position) will get you a nicer than normal bottom end and a meaty midrange with some treble but a narrower frequency response than what you’d expect from a true MFD single coil…something like a lower powered P-90. It’ll push any tube amp’s front end nicely. It’ll be quite a bit hotter than a straight S-500 single coil but there will be no denying a single coil voice. The parallel connection will get you a lower powered S-500 single coil type of sound…with a really wide resonance, you’ll dig this tone too. Both modes will be humbucking and dead quiet.

I played with each set and liked what I heard. I didn’t bother wiring them to a switch…I just used alligator clips to make the requisite connections and went straight to a single 250K volume pot which fed straight the output jack on my breadboard test instrument (similar to what Leo used). You definitely do not need a pre-amp with the pickups…totally unnecessary.

DC-R measurements for the bridge assembly will be 8.87K ohms (series) and 2.21K ohms (parallel). "

Last edited by Elwood on Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My ‘most stored’ guitar is probably my F100 , which for sentimental reasons I’m trying to preserve as best I can. I have maybe three or four guitars that I don’t play much. Ideally I would like to someday, but in truth most of my playing is just at home where it isn’t really necessary to drag out the ‘nice’ ones for the sake of practicing scales and licks. At most I estimate they each get played a half-dozen times a year when I want to record something. Those guitars are mainly my MIJ Jaguar, American Special Jazzmaster, one of my ‘66 Mustangs, and actually my ‘87 SC3 I’m somewhat ashamed to say.

I hear ya, I have some nice playing graphite necked frankenstrats that are my current daily players, they weather daily use with little concern.
I miss my red '87 SC-3...purest quack I've ever played with.

I painted the Invader neck, the wood had some stains and off center mineral streaks that helped with that decision.
I thought of the late 80's painted SC-3's as further justification.
I also painted the body, with a bit of airbrush art to keep things challenging
It's coming out alright...pics soon.

Right on with the description of the SC3 as 'quacky,' they might be a bit shorter on 'twang' than a Strat but the 'quack' is there

Stacked 'singles' are also made by Seymour Duncan and other companies, though of course not in MFD form factor. I have a Strat Plus S4n stack that is a GREAT pickup; apparently they tune the bottom coil in those by adding resistors so the 'dummy' coil has the least impact on the single sound while still producing a hum-canceling effect. Their earlier non-Plus Strat Stacks have a less good reputation for sound (except that Yngwie uses them.) The stacked idea is/was also used by Fender in their noiseless Strat Deluxe pickups such as the Samarium Cobalts designed by Bill Lawrence, and stacked Jazzmaster pickups used, to bring things full circle, on the American Special Jazzmaster I mentioned - though I replaced them with a Duncan Hot set. Gibson also makes stacked P90s.

I actually wish the original MFD design was productionized including the claw shielding as a noise-limiter (per the original design) ; that strategy works pretty well for Lace Sensors - and for their distant relative, Jag pickups.

Elwood,

Thanks for the LR!

The G&L that has seen the least love for me has been the 25th Anniversary.


Nothing really against it her, just heavier tone and weight than I have been after. On the road this week but will pull her out when back to see what I've been missing. (only after plunkin' the new ASAT III and Commemorative)

Nothing really against it her, just heavier tone and weight than I have been after. On the road this week but will pull her out when back to see what I've been missing. (only after plunkin' the new ASAT III and Commemorative)

The 25th Anniversary looks like it would come alive with a full stack, at about 8 feet away.
I'm thinking that stiff Mahogany would act as an efficient secondary transducer,
...no need for an E-bow

I loaned my brother a '65 melodymaker years back...I won't ever see it again. I'm jonesin'
for another seasoned mahogany ax. That guitar had some serious fine-tuned crunch .
They are still under a grand,but I might attempt a build...I have this old Mahogany from a mid-century pool table.
(so many projects )

Here's some quick pics of one of the pickups and the painting progress.
I put a block in the humbucker cavity and rerouted for a the single coil footprint.
Those cavities are deep...there's maybe 1/8" left before I blew through the back..whew!

This is my first attempt at painting clouds,water,etc...with the airbrush, it's not done yet,
but I'm liking it. I was going to go for a Space Invader graphic theme, but I went with nature.
I might put an 8-bit alien on the headstock...

No gloss coats yet, so it looks a bit dry. It'll look twice as good once it's all finished and buffed.







...and some close-ups of one of the magic tone generators:











...and one with the cover on...



I'll post updates as I make progress.

Late reply , but here goes...

Cooking tip: Poached eggs, I found or read this somewhere, can't remember.
Heat a fry pan with about 1 - 1/2 inches of water to a simmer. Crack you eggs close and slip them in the water close. Work in a clockwise direction so you know which ones to remove first. When all eggs are in turn off heat and cover the pan. Eggs are done in 3 to 5 minutes. Use a slotted spoon to remove and blot on paper towels.

This is the best method I have come across, I am a fan of poached eggs.
My least played guitar these days is my SC-2 reissue, which is ironic since I was so happy when I got it. It has a nice Tobacco Sunburst and was one of the first ones to come with a case instead of the ( very good , I have heard ) G&L gig bags. I have had it for almost 9 years. It does have a little bit of fret sprout that has been there from the start. It is more noticeable in the winter months and has always bothered me . Darwin gave some great advice once upon a time about how to deal with that but I have never got around to it. The real dagger was when I acquired my 86 Asat in 2014. The difference in the pick ups is not even close. So in my case , the Asat is an SC-2 RI killer. IF i sell it , it will be replaced with another G&L.

Elwood, I had no idea you were that handy with an airbrush. Your project is going to be great ! I look forward to seeing the finished product.

Last edited by glvourot on Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Late as well, but here goes.
Last I ate, it was Bistro A&W Teen burger. It was ...okay.

Cooking Trick: You guys all probably know this one, but add some brown sugar to your chili. Really brings out the other flavors.

Deepest in my closet? That'd be my 88 Fender Strat Plus. I bought it off the rack in 1989 or 1990, having wanted to get a brighter sound than I could get from my Les Paul at the time. I kind of regretted buying it, as I never bonded with the Lace Sensor pickups. Loved the neck, but didn't like playing it once I plugged it in. So it's still in mint condition. The last time I pulled it out I thought - I should just drop some G&L MFD pickups in. That'd make it sing like it ought to. I was never sure if the pockets would be deep enough for it though, and didn't wanna buy the pickups until I knew for sure. I'll get around to that some day.


Will I dig it out soon and tell everyone about it?
Well, no... I'm at work, but I do have an image of that strat on my phone:


The full story goes like this. I played rythmn guitar in the first band I ever joined. I sucked, but I had a nice 70s Blonde Gibson Les Paul deluxe. Unfortunately I was playing through a 30W solid state "Gorilla" amp, and the amp really made my Les Paul sound like mud. My bandmade - the other (much better) guitarist had just got himself an Eric Clapton signature series Fender Stratocaster - in (patented) 7up Green, that sounded clear and sweet to my muddy and messy. So I sold my Les Paul to buy me a strat. I didn't know much about guitars back them (late 80s) so I just went and picked out this guitar because the salesman made it sound like these lace sensor pickups were magically able to do everything a Les Paul could do, and still do everything a Strat could do. Well, I found that everything I liked about a strat sound, they seemed to lack, and so as soon as the next guitar came along, this one went into the closet and more or less stayed there.

I did the pickguard in 1990 - just took a bunch of black and white photos, glued them to the pickguard, then poured some epoxy over the whole pickguard, then when it was dry, put it back on. You might be able to see some of my influences - SRV, Hendrix, Buddy Guy, Django Reinhardt, Robert Johnson - and I slipped a small b/w pick of my girlfriend (now wife) in that shows up in this pick as a smudge on the top of Robert Johnson's head, and under SRV (between bridge and middle pickup). Once the epoxy was dry, I had to drill the dried epoxy out of the pickguard holes, and file it around where the pickguard meets the neck just to get it to sit right. The expoxy used to be crystal clear, but it has nicely 'aged'. I don't think I'll ever sell it, it was the first guitar I ever dared to "personalize".

Thanks for the LR Elwood!

Wow - great work on the Airbrush! Dan - does your Strat Plus have the Sensor Red/Silver/Blue set, or the Golds? My friend had a Plus with the RSBs, and that guitar always sounded *very* dark compared to other single coils. I have a Hot Gold set (different than the regular Golds with regard to higher gauss strength in the magnets to my understanding.) They sound much more bright/single-like than other Sensors I’ve used (esp. as I have 500k pots) but are still a bit on the darker side.

Deepest in my closet? That'd be my 88 Fender Strat Plus. I bought it off the rack in 1989 or 1990, having wanted to get a brighter sound than I could get from my Les Paul at the time. I kind of regretted buying it, as I never bonded with the Lace Sensor pickups. Loved the neck, but didn't like playing it once I plugged it in. So it's still in mint condition. The last time I pulled it out I thought - I should just drop some G&L MFD pickups in. That'd make it sing like it ought to. I was never sure if the pockets would be deep enough for it though, and didn't wanna buy the pickups until I knew for sure. I'll get around to that some day.

I squeezed a late 80's SC-3 pickup into a MIM strat, the pickguard bulges up a little...but it works.
I have an old EMG SA set in my '89 Skyhawk...they lack a little of that alnico sparkle, but nails that Gilmour tone.

My first amp was a Peavey Decade, not an inspiring sound
I recently played a cheap Crate 2x10 with stereo chorus, sounded amazing!!

Thanks Danley and glvourot for the compliments...that'll help keep the inspiration up,
I'm hoping to be adding gloss coats in a couple days, maybe assemble her next week.

I have a Hog S-500 project that hasn't seen the light for a while, I'm thinking that'll be next on deck.

Cheers

Wow - great work on the Airbrush! Dan - does your Strat Plus have the Sensor Red/Silver/Blue set, or the Golds? My friend had a Plus with the RSBs, and that guitar always sounded *very* dark compared to other single coils. I have a Hot Gold set (different than the regular Golds with regard to higher gauss strength in the magnets to my understanding.) They sound much more bright/single-like than other Sensors I’ve used (esp. as I have 500k pots) but are still a bit on the darker side.

Not an air-brush - actual black and white photos clipped from guitar magazines, then covered in epoxy.

Mine has the three golds - my threefold muse. or mu's - since no matter how I set them up the sound is either muddy, muffled and/or muted.

I squeezed a late 80's SC-3 pickup into a MIM strat, the pickguard bulges up a little...but it works.
I have an old EMG SA set in my '89 Skyhawk...they lack a little of that alnico sparkle, but nails that Gilmour tone.

That's encouraging. I think my next project is going to be replacing all the original electronics with an S-500 setup. I'll probably load another pickguard with all the old bits - that way I can swap back the original setup if I ever sell it.

Nice LR Elwood, your project guitar looks and sounds very interesting.
I remember that graphic you did on a guitar body from court of the crimson king which was special.

lunch yesterday was a turkey panini sandwich with all the trimmings and a bowl of tomato soup at a lodge at Deer Valley in Park City Utah. What a place! snowy mountains forever for 360 degrees. I'll post a view shot after i load some pics.

i am culinarily challenged, which is ok since my wife is a foodie and a skilled cook, so we like to joke that i can boil water and make toast.

my guitar that sits way back in the closet and gets the least attention was my only guitar for 2 decades from '77 to '97 (when it got alot of attention),
a les paul standard, date in control box of 12/7/76. probably a close cousin of Dan's les paul deluxe from that era, in fact mine says les paul deluxe on the back of the head stock, but they routed it for regular sized humbuckers at the Nashville factory and put a "standard" truss rod cover on. Gibson records say they only produced about 250 "standards" in 1976 so it could be considered rare. Prior to '76, non-custom, non-deluxe les pauls were called "les pauls" (including the late '50's 'bursts). it's a wonderful guitar, aside from being heavy, but there are many others that call to me these days...

lunch yesterday was a turkey panini sandwich with all the trimmings and a bowl of tomato soup at a lodge at Deer Valley in Park City Utah. What a place! snowy mountains forever for 360 degrees. I'll post a view shot after i load some pics.

Looking forward to those pics. I've been craving the crispness of the slopes.

I'm 54 and I can't remember ever having brandy, maybe as a teen ..hehe
I do like Tequila, even if I can't remember having it .

Cool LP, thanks for sharing it's story.

drjho7 - That Les Paul is finished identically to my old Les Paul Deluxe. Every time I see one, I get a heart pang of regret.

I thought they might be close by your description. Did yours have mahogany or maple neck?
My friend Henry in our band has a '75 LP deluxe with mahogany neck, mine is '76 and maple.
Otherwise they look the same. Mahogany sandwich bodies. Blonde maple tops. Original knobs were top hat bell reflector knobs, i switched those out for the gold speed knobs, and of course in the '70's , alot of les paul players, like ace frehley, peter frampton, tom scholz, mick ronson, were putting Dimarzio p'ups in their LP's (though Scholz preferred '68 LP's with p90's!), so i put in the DiMarzio dual sound, a super distortion with a coil tap switch.
These 2 mods probably decreased the value of the guitar substantially. No matter cause I'll never sell it. To me It's still worth the same $350 i paid for it in Feb '77.

here's a frosty view of Park City mountains



didn't know this guy was still around



this guy kept an eye on us

I thought they might be close by your description. Did yours have mahogany or maple neck?

Maple.

Had the mahogany sandwich body, and the same blonde maple top. Knobs were all top hat bell reflectors as well.

I will eternally regret selling that guitar to buy the strat plictured above. There will always be a soft spot in my heart for this kind of Les Paul maple top. They just look great to me.

All Together Now...

Long live G016846!
I think it started out as Salmon Pink(Invader) in case anyone sees that Logbook page.

A few things to iron out, one of the dummy coils seems to be shorted to ground.
I might be able to fix it, though it's pretty fine without.
I like the sound of the bridge MFD with the full 9.5K resistance in parallel
with the 4.25K middle (no dummy coil at the moment).
Especially on the high gain channel of my GT Trio preamp...a very vox-y crunch...lots of rich harmonics, but not harsh.

I'll play with it a bit and make some recordings once it's dialed in the last little bit.

It could use some more clearcoat/buffing/polish, but it's good to go for now...I want to play it for a spell.

I'll have to post a link to the album for now (slickpic is being wonky).
Gallery album coming soon....until then:
Link to Google Photos

Looks amazing all put together! Awesome work Elwood.
Cheers, Dan

Looks amazing all put together! Awesome work Elwood.
Cheers, Dan

Thanks Dan,
I'm surprised how much I'm loving this one. Frets are still beefy...the tone is so Hi-fi.
I'm sure the new strings are part of it, but the low DCR coils (4.25K) are probably
making it extra spanky. Even the bad notes sound good

Slickpic is working now...here's some shots inline:

beautiful finish, nice work Elwood!

Wow - That's pretty amazing and looks awesome. Are you thinking the short in the dummy coil is worth re-winding that coil over, or are you going to leave it? How do you have the switching set up? I'm thinking it would be interesting to have three-way switches on each pickup, for full/split/off potentially.

Wow - That's pretty amazing and looks awesome. Are you thinking the short in the dummy coil is worth re-winding that coil over, or are you going to leave it? How do you have the switching set up? I'm thinking it would be interesting to have three-way switches on each pickup, for full/split/off potentially.

I'll leave it as is for now, next time I change strings I might pull the pickup out and take a close look
in case it's the lead/coil end junction.
I don't hear much much humbucking going on with a single pickup selected, though the signal is hotter with the bridge
and neck (the ones with both secondary coils intact). I'm thinking even though there are no poles in the bottom coil,
there is still some induction from above, adding a touch of in phase signal...i.e. punchier.
I can test this theory by just wiring up the bottom coil to see what it is producing.
I have all 12 wires (4 per pickup) coming into the control panel, so it is easy to change things up.

It is dead quiet with the neck/middle, middle/bridge selections. Even in front of 3 monitors and a 60" large screen tv.
Other selections it behave like a strat...with directional noise that can be eliminated by facing the right way.
The switching is simple...one hot lead to a lug on the spst switch...the middle lugs are a rail that goes to the Vol/Tone, then the jack.
Coils connected in series.

I'll get some things recorded, to quote Zappa:
"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture"