Lunch Report Non Existent Mon April 26-@5:00 CST

This is amazing and almost seems illegal. So here is something to ponder.

Lunch was a Taco Pizza from PaPa Murphys and it was darn decent with a cold beer. Ginny and I enjoyed it with the kitties.

I am bringing an item up for discussion and let me know what you think. My favorite Legacy, Vintage White got a workout last Saturday, about 4 hours as it was raining. The neck on this guitar feels exceptional. Extremely easy to play and the frets are perfect with no buzzing with a very low action(.070 to .080). I purchased this guitar last October (it is a 2007). I was not happy with the neck relief as I had to really tighten the truss rod to get .008. It has a Rosewood fretboard and I have oiled it several times during the winter. It played so well on Saturday that I checked the relief yesterday and found that it was less than .002 and it still had no buzz. Backed off on the truss rod a bit and I like to set them at .008. Now here are the observations and the question in general. I am finding that my maple necks rarely need adjustment. My vintage reissues never have required adjustment and I am not sure why but the vintage rod setup seems to be very stable. The ones that I have to adjust are always rosewood. My theory is that the rosewood is porous and dries out essentially making it shorter in the winter. It causes a bow condition. I do not believe that this neck got that much different due to humidity change. It was adjusted earlier this winter. I am beginning to believe that the frequent oiling keeps the rosewood from drying out. So I am not starting another lemon oil thread but I believe that oil keeps the rosewood neck more stable. Alright folks- Let me have it. Is it a find or in the mind?

Last week Spot asked for a photo of hobbies, non guitar playing. I didn't have time to post but here it is today.


Hope you all had a great day!-- Darwin

Last edited by darwinohm on Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My theory is that the rosewood is porrus and dries out essentially making it shorter in the winter. It causes a bow condition. I do not believe that this neck got that much different due to humidity change. Alright folks- Let me have it. Is it a find or in the mind?

I'm no lumberjack, nor am I a wood expert, but I'm going to go with "in the mind". I can't imagine that a thin piece of rosewood will cause a much thicker piece of maple (with a steel rod inside it) to bow. Did you happen to notice if you had tremendous fret sprout? If not, I think that would help debunk the myth! That said, if you think it's working keep it up, but make sure you don't over do it. I recall reading somewhere that some rosewood board treatments can wreak havoc with the glue that bonds the board to the neck.

I believe neck stability depends on the individual piece of wood. A local dealer had a maple neck/board Bluesboy in stock for a year or two (beautiful guitar, btw). It had a fairly thin neck, and it'd move if you broke wind next to it. It finally settled down and became more stable. On the other hand, the neck on a Legacy I had was like a steel girder. It wouldn't move if you laid a cinder block on it!

Ches, I have been closely observing that . There is no fret sprout. They are smooth and this neck has a gloss finish. The rose wood is not the only reason in my mind. The whole neck would be porous from the top, including the maple as the back and sides are sealed by poly. I have many guitars that I watch and the rosewood necks are the ones that require adjustment. Anyway I am looking for your opinions so thanks. --Darwin

I have to agree. As the rosewood dries out, it will shrink, pull, contract, and put undue stresses on the neck. Since it's glued down pretty solid, it can and will change the relief. It can also shrink side to side resulting in that longitudinal split that always seems to occur near the first and second fret. Keeping it oiled allows the rosewood material to be more pliable and not pull quite so hard during humidity and temperature changes. I'm currently doing some tests on a rosewood fingerboard that has been removed from the neck for a minimum of ten years and has not been treated. I'm checking the diminsional changes of the width, length, thickness, and straightness of the board at several locations at four different humidity levels and temperatures. I'll repeat the tests again after thoroughly treating the board. I'll get back to you with the results. Anybody that's ever been to the lumberyard picking out the straightest 2X4s in the pile and then leaving them to dry out in the sun knows all too well about the wood moving. Maybe I'll try sealing a 2X4 and leaving it in.....maybe not.

Balance wheels in watches are generally bimetallic, and use different metals for expansion/contraction due to temperature variations. Some clocks use pendulum rods that use different metals for the same reason. So, yes, I do think that the rosewood could be shrinking and pulling the neck forward. When you think that you can adjust the truss-rod without forcing it too much, and get a the desired change in bow, I'd think that the pull of the different contractions of the could cause instability that way. So, you might have something there. I haven't had too much problem with such things here on the West Coast.
BTW: Your 'other hobby' is classic...and...you missed a spot

(edited for typo)

Last edited by MrRoundel on Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I must confess that I'm too ignorant to comment on the situation, but am enjoying the answers. Maybe woodfixer will chime in here. Like Ches, I'm having trouble imagining that a relatively thin slab of Rosewood could have that much effect on one of these hard maple necks. I've notice temperature and moisture having effects before, but that's all I ever attributed the changes to. I kinda considered them affecting the neck more so than the board. I'm not ready to day it's in the mind just yet.

Great question.

Jay

Have been getting some great answers and I want to clarify one point. The issue is not the rosewood and if it were sealed with Poly like the rest of the neck there may not be an issue. The issue is that rosewood is not painted and is left with open grain. The back and sides of the neck are usually sealed with Poly or sometimes Nitro. That is the problem and it also allows the maple underneath the rosewood to dry a bit also. After posting last night, I checked a Tele that I have had the same issue with for 2 years and I have oiled several times this last 8 months. I could not get .008 relief on that Tele without out fear of breaking the truss rod. It had more like .020 when I bought it off e-bay and the rod was very tight. I checked it last night and it had about .006 relief. I backed off the truss rod a bit and that is the first time I could ever do that. This is a Tele that I normally do not play. Just more information. Thank you for your responses. -- Darwin

The statement about the lack of finish on a rosewood board allowing moisture to reach the maple makes sense to me. If you have ever painted only one side of a new door ( a mistake I've made) you'll find it will bow and not seat properly in the jam after a week or two.

One of my favorite quotes is "It can take a while for the wood to forget it was a tree "

There is a relevant post here on the Alembic board.
http://alembic.com/club/messages/16271/18777.html?1117024762

Elwood, interesting post that you pointed us to. Being extremely curious about the mechanical aspects of everything, I keep track of the adjustments on my guitars and always wonder why, if something has changed. Most have no interest about most of this stuff but curiosity is like having GAS.--Darwin.

I think that Darwin brings upo ans interesting point.
I have some basses that need more tweaking than others and I think that the rosewood necks do move more than maple, but a sever change in humidity (i.e. Summer to Winter)will affect all instruments.
I know that rose wood is porous and sealed maple fingerboard should be less so, BUT...
You have to remember that all necks have a truss rod route that has no finish and the tuner holes will allow moisture to penetrate the neck, too.
I think that some pieces of wood (i.e.necks) move more than others and if a truss rod is stressed by a neck, you are likely to strip or break the rod when trying to straighten the problem neck.
I will say the the neck tilt on a G&L can help a bad neck be playable. I did it on my L-2000 neck with a bad rod.
It can be played in the lower positions because of the neck tilt feature. YAY 3 -bolt!