Wednesday February 5, 2014 - Open Mic Report

I had a bowl of cereal (Kashi Cinnamon Oat) and a copy of black coffee for breakfast.

Dave posted this on G&L's Facebook page yesterday:

Inside Leo's Lab: Fender Electric XII, possibly an old development mule just hanging around. Whenever we look at this, we think about possibilities. What do you think?

Dean Coy has built a few 12-strings:



One for Will Ray:



More photos of Dean's work here:Z-12 Development by Dean Coy [aka dcskunkworks].

Mac Whiteside also built this one for Will:



Perhaps now's the time to voice your opinions on whether or not G&L should build a G&L electric 12-string guitar.
I will make sure that Dave see's this thread in a day or two.

So, the questions for today are:
Should G&L make a 12-string guitar?
If so, what configuration would you like to see?
If not, why don't you think they should?

--Craig

Should G&L make a 12-string guitar?

I think a 12 string G&L would be interesting.

If so, what configuration would you like to see?

I've only owned one electric 12 string guitar. It was an Ibanez, RT-452. It had a HSH pickup arrangement, which seems odd for a 12 string guitar but it worked well. The RT-452 had a hardtail bridge that allowed intonating all 12 strings individually. If G&L built a 12 string I'd like to see that feature implemented on a saddle lock bridge. I know most people on the forum would like to see a 12 string G&L with Z coil pickups. I'd rather see one with a pair of PAF style humbuckers. The Seymour Duncan '59 might be perfect for the job.

Why not ? They would never be big sellers but they would have a chance to set a new standard. The mule body shape would look good ( minus that headstock ). I have only played acoustic twelve strings however.

It would be interesting to see what G&L could do with a 12-string. I'd personally rather see a G&L baritone, though.

Ken

It might be a way for G&L to create some excitement in the market, not sure how many would sell. Not in the market for one personally. I like the body shape of the mule. Agree on the headstock though, if you are playing it, it would look like the headstock was melting.

It would need to have a unique sound. The Z-coils look cool and would certainly add tone options but how about an option for jumbo MFD's? I bet those suckers would jangle!

The ones made for Will are pretty noticeable too. They look good.

Oh, pita wrap with side of fresh veggies and fruit. And an espresso.

I can't imagine how many they would sell.
Will's Z-2 layout appeals, with his meaty back pup of course, but perhaps in a Comanche chassis for wider appeal. The original Fender XII headstock could just lose the "melted" hockey-stick bit, like the Japanese Fender Strat XII, which looked OK. But some way to get some G&L-ness up there would be good.
And I have to agree about the Special pickups alternative.

I would love to see a revisiting of the really early Fender evolution, with a lap steel!
In the present scene, possibly viable?
Again with the option of the Will Ray pickup, or the Asat SUPER back pup this time, and even possibly the MFD humbucker. A chunky steel mount to suit the choice of pickup, over a common route.
Saddle-lock. Comfort plus!
Great metalflakes, or lots of maple in Lemondrop or Orange.
Pearloid bits, or black.
Nice.

I would be IN .... like Nick make the head stock G&L-ish , I agree about getting some excitment in the market , and I agree that though G&L might not sell many but the excitment of the 12 string might still put another more conventional G&L in there hands and make a sell all the while of setting a new standard ...... I like the Comanche Z coil best , but any of Will's ASAT 12 strings work too !!

is Dean Coy and mac Whitside G&L employee's ??

does Will have any sound clips floating around on the 12 string ??

the David Crosby guitar looks great !! ....
would you be able to have three coils along with the expander switch ??

I would be IN .... like Nick make the head stock G&L-ish , I agree about getting some excitment in the market , and I agree that though G&L might not sell many but the excitment of the 12 string might still put another more conventional G&L in there hands and make a sell all the while of setting a new standard ...... I like the Comanche Z coil best , but any of Will's ASAT 12 strings work too !!

is Dean Coy and mac Whitside G&L employee's ??

does Will have any sound clips floating around on the 12 string ??

No, Dean and Mac are not G&L employees.

Here's a sample clip of one of Dean's creations (the Clear Red ASAT Deluxe with modified Z-coils under the humbucker covers): Dean Coy's Z-12 audio sample.

the David Crosby guitar looks great !! ....
would you be able to have three coils along with the expander switch ??

Yes, it did look great, just wasn't to David Crosby's liking though, so his guitar tech has it now.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't have three coils with the expander switch.

did Dean and Mac make these for G&L like a prototype ??..... or is this just a private venture .... just trying to make the G&L connection between the three

I have eaten much less in the last 4 days! No lunch today.

A 12 string would be nice but the neck would have to be wider. I tried a Ricky recently and it was too crowded near the nut and I have heard others complain about that. I would like to try one especially with Z's-- Darwin

If you go through with it, the headstock needs serious consideration. I cannot see it very well but it looks like the silver sparkle Will Ray has 6 strings threading through the headstock to tuners on the backside, I like the look. Of course I have no idea whether that design functioned well. If anything put a headstock up for vote before committing to it. All of the others look awful IMO.

As for the pickups, I think it would be a mistake to go with Z-coils because those are already handicapped only appealing to a limited number of people. Standard pickups read as something that can at least be swapped for a number of options on the market if they do not satisfy someone.

I think a 12-string electric had a better chance of selling during the 60's and early 70's The Birds era. Personally, I do not like the sound of a 12-string electric. I hope it does not void my input by stating that I have no actual interest in owning a 12-string electric. I believe the points I brought up are valid even though I would not buy a 12-string electric under any circumstances. I would like G&L to succeed if they go with it.

did Dean and Mac make these for G&L like a prototype ??..... or is this just a private venture .... just trying to make the G&L connection between the three

Dean's work really is a Proof of Concept. Dave did supply Dean with parts, bodies, and some necks (with non-drilled headstocks).
Dean had found some tuners by LSR which he used on at least four of his PoC prototypes. Unfortunately, LSR stopped making
those inline tuners, so Dean's been searching for suitable replacements. His goal is to use a G&L headstock (enlarged some) with the tuners located on one side.
His work on this project has been on hold for quite some time. Each year that we attend NAMM, he seeks out possible tuners to use, but has yet to
find suitable ones.

I believe Will provided Dean with one of his WR Signature models for Dean to modify, which Dean did and presented it to Will at the G&L NAMM booth in 2004.
Will also commissioned Mac to build his 12-string. Will please correct me if I am wrong about this.

I just checked G&L's Facebook page on Dave's post. There are 153 Thumbs up and 53 comments (almost all in favor of a G&L 12-string).

Thanks to all who posted your thoughts on this.
I'll pass this thread on to Dave.

Have a great weekend. Linda and I are off to visit our daughter (who's currently carrying her first child & our first grandchild ) and son in-law tomorrow.

--Craig

who's currently carrying her first child & our first grandchild

Craig, being a grandpa is really special. -- Darwin

I've been doing some research, and I will post a Monday Morning Lunch Report/Open Letter about my thoughts for a Comanche XII, what the specs should be, and why I think it would be successful.

Bill

I'm looking forward to that Bill.
Have you played a G&L with each Z-coil wired in parallel ( like on the VI's) ?
That adds a very nice airyness that I think would be wonderful on a twelve .

I really like the look of the massive tuner overload on the traditional headstock, I hope the tuners are found, or designed...after all,we have the technology (cue Six Million Dollar man theme). The other headstocks don't live up to the cool designs that drew many of us to G&L in the first place.

I'm with Ken on the Baritone...with black crinkle powder coated hardware ...and I might buy my first new instrument for this decade.

elwood

Bump...
is everything going well Bill? I was hoping to see your inputs(outputs? ) on the Xll .

I'm guessing Bill is still partying. SEA HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!