G&L Frets?

[Northside Jimmy]

What year did G&L switch fret size? I have a '82 SC-2 with wide/low frets, and had a '90 ASAT Classic with mediums. I'm wondering what frets came standard, and what year they changed, and to what. Thanks

[louis cyfer]

Medium Jumbo
The standard frets on all G&L guitars. A great balance, easy to chord and solo.

Vintage
For players who prefer the slim frets of '50s and '60s Leo instruments


Stainless Steel Medium Jumbo
Stainless Steel version is extra durable for longetivity. A great choice for extensive touring or musicians with an aggressive playing style.

Stainless Steel Vintage
Feels just like a '50s or '60s Leo guitar, but Stainless Steel will last significantly longer before a fret dressing is needed.


remember medium jumbo at g&l doesn't mean the same thing as at fender. g&l's medium jumbo is bigger than fender's jumbo.

[Northside Jimmy]

did G&L offer fret options in the 80's?

[bword4]

Do you happen to know the dimensions of G&L's medium jumbo frets? And Fender's? It would be nice to see the comparison.

[louis cyfer]

Do you happen to know the dimensions of G&L's medium jumbo frets? And Fender's? It would be nice to see the comparison.

g&l's is .110x.055 dunlop 6100.

fender's is .106x.036

[Northside Jimmy]

What year did G&L switch fret size? I have a '82 SC-2 with wide/low frets, and had a '90 ASAT Classic with mediums. I'm wondering what frets came standard, and what year they changed, and to what. Thanks

anyone know what year they switched?

[Craig]

What year did G&L switch fret size? I have a '82 SC-2 with wide/low frets, and had a '90 ASAT Classic with mediums. I'm wondering what frets came standard, and what year they changed, and to what. Thanks

Are you sure that your ASAT Classic was a '90?

Based upon my research:

G&L switched from the low-wide frets to the Medium Jumbo Dunlop 6100 frets on ASATs some time in 1992.
The first time G&L used Vintage Dunlop 6230 frets were on the George Fullerton Signature model in 1995.
In the Feb. 1, 1998 Price List, the Vintage Dunlop 6230 frets became available as an option for all guitars.

did G&L offer fret options in the 80's?

No. (Well, they did offer some fretless Basses in the 80's. )

Hope this helps.

[Northside Jimmy]

Sure thought it was a '90(it was a signature model). Helpful as always.

[Craig]

Sure thought it was a '90(it was a signature model). Helpful as always.

ASAT Classic Signature models were built from 1990 - 1992 (see Production List of G&L Instruments (USA)) So yours could be a '92.

Glad I could help.

[bword4]

Do you happen to know the dimensions of G&L's medium jumbo frets? And Fender's? It would be nice to see the comparison.

g&l's is .110x.055 dunlop 6100.

fender's is .106x.036

Good to know, thanks.

I used to prefer Fender's med. jumbo but recently bought a jazzmaster with jumbo's that feels good. So hopefully the new Legacy will as well.

[Craig]

I recently found out that G&L had changed their source for fretwire.

For the Medium Jumbo fretwire, they are using Jescar 57110 Nickel Silver 18% fretwire, which is .110" X .057".
For the Vintage fretwire, they are using Jescar 43080 Nickel Silver 18% fretwire, which is .80" X .043".
For the Stainless Steel fretwire, they are using Jescar 57110-S Stainless Steel fretwire, which is .110" X .057".

[Craig]

I recently emailed Gabe Dellevigne to get any information he had regarding pre-BBE fretwire.
Here is his reply:

Hello Craig,

[...]

Anyway, regarding the pre-BBE fretwire...

There is a common misconception that the wire used from 1980 through 1991 was all the same. It was not. The dimensions changed over the decade. I have been fortunate enough to get my hands on enough NOS necks from a variety of years and measure the wire and document it. I have measured the wire on quite a few necks that never even made it to the fret dressing stage...so these tell the truth about what wire was actually used. Because of the imprecision of Leo's swingarm radius contraption...the fingerboards weren't really truly flat and consequently, quite a bit of fret crown material was removed at the factory during the leveling operation to compensate for this. In general, the 17th to the 22nd frets as most all pre-BBE G&L (and some BBE era) necks exhibit a rise in the fingerboard here which is why the frets tend to be lowest in this region. This isn't caused by wood swell as some opine but rather, by how the neck was constructed, shaped and how the radius was sanded into the fingerboard. I've measured many NOS necks that never even got bolted to guitars and they all exhibit this reality. Same goes for production necks I've measured...same issue.

I haven't paid much attention to or measured the necks BBE has been making CNC style...I'd imagine they are much more precise (I'd hope so) and the Plek surely will remove as little material as necessary. The more precise the fingerboard surface and the more accurate the depth of the fret insertion the less material needs to be removed. Granted, wood shifts, moves and swells over time but if the moisture content is right, the feed rates properly set on the CNC and the tooling inserts sharp...you should get repeated success on the fingerboard machining.

Some folks seem to want to reference "Dunlop" catalog fretwire numbers...I'm not sure why. Dunlop has never (and still never) produced/produces fretwire. They simply bought it in bulk, packaged it and sold it. They are just a re-seller. There were and still are very few companies that produce it...it is a specialty extrusion product and some of the old companies that used to make it are long gone. That said, Jescar is going to be the best bet for the desired wire and that's a good thing as their quality is higher than anybody else who produces wire today.

I have the exact dimensions used on the G-200 model at home. I'll have to dig it out. I've re-fretted seven different G-200's for customers over the decades and I actually have some original wire that I pulled in my stash of fretwire samples. I'll try and get the information sometime this week and I'll pass it on. The exact wire is not available anymore but Jescar will have something very close. Nobody will ever notice the difference if the fretwork is performed properly.

Best Regards,


Gabe

Once I hear back from Gabe with the specific dimensions used on the G-200, I will post a followup.

[Craig]

Just got Gabe's email:

Hello Craig,

I was able to dig out my notes on pre-BBE Fretwire and I even was able to locate some samples of actual wire that I removed from customer guitars that I had refretted over the years. The attached image answers all the questions necessary.

My suggestion whenever refretting any guitar (G&L’s included) is to use genuine Jescar wire. The quality of their wire is simply the best…nothing really compares to it from a quality perspective.

Whenever you refret a pre-BBE G&L you have to be very careful with the fret removal as the ebony or maple likes to chip. In the early days (like when G-200’s were built) they installed the fretwire using an oddball contraption that Leo had devised back in the Fender & CLF days. It slid the fret into the fingerboard sideways. If you pull them out from the top it’ll be chip city. You should also tape off the board before pulling the frets, flux each fret and heat them with a soldering iron. This expands the fret and loosens its grip on the surrounding wood. This simple step will reduce the chipping greatly. I also grind a small dimple in the side of each fret and tap they out gently with a small punch and hammer…sideways, the same way it was installed at the factory.

As stated before, the fingerboard will not be true…they weren’t true when they left the factory and they definitely are not now. The thin ebony fingerboard with the dual radiuses machined into them are very fragile. You have to be very careful as to how much material you remove during the truing process. Without question, from the 17th to 22nd fret region material will have to be removed…if not, you’ll be removing a large amount of fretwire to get everything “right”.

Ideally, you want the fingerboard radiusing performed while the neck is under simulated tension with the strings in place and the truss rod adjusted. The Dan Erlewine neck jig is the perfect device for doing this. Most luthier’s don’t have this fixture and simply use radius blocks with the truss rod loosened. Early G&L necks are shallow, thin and very flexible so after you string them up and adjust the truss rod (compression style) interesting things happen with the fingerboard.

Most luthiers basically remove fret material where they need to until they get choke and buzz free playability up and down the neck. Shop’s with Plek’s have a definite advantage though I don’t have a Plek and I’ve had great success getting perfect refrets. It just takes the right tools, fixtures and techniques.

I recommend the Jescar FW51108 wire for those wanting to stick with nickel-silver. The same profile is available in Stainless Steel…I recommend stainless over nickel-silver mainly because it lasts much longer and makes bending even easier. It will impact the sound of the guitar only slightly though to my ears, I prefer the sound of stainless wire. Stainless will not oxidize nearly as easily as traditional wire.

FW51108 is .051” tall…originally the fretwire started out at .045” but ended up being somewhere between .038” and .040” tall depending on what part of the fingerboard you were measuring. 35 years later and a dressing or two down the road the wire tends to be .030” or less!!!

I don’t really see any good reason to remove wire height unless you are adamant about making the guitar look like it did from the factory. Some players do like their fingers to touch the fingerboard at the same time the string is fretted…so in this case, make it as low as necessary to do that.

Personally, I find .051” to be a much more enjoyable playing experience and I very much like not having my fingers touch the fingerboard if I play with a light touch (which I do).

Anyway, this should do the trick…if you have more questions, please let me know.

Best Regards,

Here's the photo he included in this email:

[Craig]

With the introduction of the new G&L Custom Shop models at the 2018 Winter NAMM show,
the standard fret specification for the Custom Shop models is: medium-jumbo Senko 18% Nickel Silver.
Reference post: Feb. 1, 2018-present Custom Shop Specifications & Options.