New Serial Number Plates

I had to think long and hard before posting this. I just saw a picture of the new serial number plate. My initial reaction was not positive. I am sure that it is easier from a production standpoint but I find it less than appealing, it certainly would be easy to remove/ switch with another guitar and how about reproduction. If the waterslide serial number were applied under the clearcoat they are permanent. I was always impressed by the font and the clean look of the old serial number slide. It did not detract from the look of the headstock. I cannot imagine a plate with 2 screws on the back of my recent S-500 birdseye headstock. I am certain I will get over it, but what do you folks think about this change? It would have been nice if a simple survey had been done on this change before implementation. Can you imagine a screw on plate on the front for the model name and guitars by Leo? The least they could have done is made it Red!! See what happens when you retire and you have time to grumble over little things like this??? Darwin.

Hi guys,

Let me explain why we did this. First of all, it's way more expensive than the decals. Not that it's earth shattering either way, but these we had made by a company that does amp faceplates and other things. It's certainly not more convenient, it's more effort. So, more cost, more labor, more hassle.

This is about presentation, and it was all my thing. Fortunately, others here also appreciate it. These are beautiful instruments and they're continuing to get better in terms of quality and level of customization. A serial number decal is not very special. I wanted something special, something that celebrates the quality of this instrument is and the place where it was made.

It's a little piece of jewelry. It's a little brushed aluminum piece, but it communicates a lot. No more do we have US instruments that don't say "Made in the US" as some sort of stamp. May as well be made wherever with that exciting line. This instrument is Made in Fullerton, California, USA, and we're proud of that. Notice the tag line "The Birthplace of Bolt-on" just below. This celebrates our heritage, of Leo's, of the town. This is where the magic first happens and where the magic still does.

A the same time, I wanted a certificate that similarly celebrates the instrument. Not just a data sheet, but something worthy of the instrument. It's on 60 lb. parchment, with the borders pre-printed. We set up a database system just for making these certificates, and I spent many days helping to design it, test it and implement it. Steve Grom personally signs each one before it goes into the elegant black enveloped foil embossed with the G&L logo.

I hope you'll enjoy this little touch.

Dave

Thanks for the clarification Dave. The plate is beautiful in its appearance and what it signifies. But the fact that it's bolted to the back of the headstock is somewthing I will have to get used to I guess. I do not know whether aluminum has enough tensile strength (I guess so for the required thickness), but if it was possible to make aluminum neck plates with the same print and finish using anodization for a fair cost ...

- Jos

Hi Dave,

I'd say you guys made the right choice here. This is definitely a very nice finishing touch to a prestige piece of musical instrumentation. It sets it off very nicely and looks 'the business'. Can you post some close-up shots of the plate sometime please?

Thanks.

Bill

It's funny - my very first reaction to the new serial number plate was one of surprise and mild dislike. But after about 10 seconds, I fell in love with the look and the idea. Great move to further distinguish what are some of the best guitars being made right now.

I can see where Dave is coming from, and certainly appreciate the intent with the s/n plates being a piece of stylish jewellery. They're aesthetically very pleasing, but I just don't like the way they sit proud of the headstock. If the wood was routed VERY slightly so the plate sat flush with the headstock I'd be much happier. An indentation in the headstock would also make it obvious when a plate had been removed.

Re. the issue of removing and replacing plates, counterfeiting s/n's etc. Perhaps a small hologram could be incorporated in the plate somewhere to make it hard to reproduce. Every Australian banknote has a hologram in it, and it's pretty obvious when a note is not genuine.

Dave, it is a nice touch and I quite like the look of it, but I'm with Darwin on this point:

.... it certainly would be easy to remove/ switch with another guitar and how about reproduction. If the waterslide serial number were applied under the clearcoat they are permanent.....

- I'm concerned about the ease with which it can be removed and put on to a knock-off guitar.

I do not know whether aluminum has enough tensile strength (I guess so for the required thickness), but if it was possible to make aluminum neck plates with the same print and finish using anodization for a fair cost ...

That would be nice.... I suppose though that you could still remove it and apply it to a replica.



The spec sheet and posh envelop, however - beautiful!!!!

Dave, first of all I thank you for your responding so quickly!. You guys do watch! The only picture that I have viewed is in Muleyas post of his new Legacy. I could not read the writing. Your explanation is well received and now there is a reason with some thought. The first thing that jumped out at me was the 2 screws. Perhaps Craig could post a larger picture of the plate as I believe that many of us would like to see it. It sounds pretty cool. There is no doubt that I will get over it, especially now that I understand G&Ls reason for doing it. Stick-on with out the screws would have been cool ++. Thanks again Dave-- Darwin.

In addition to the screws, a nice dabble of epoxy glue behind the plate may give future forgers a headache.

Thanks, guys. I knocked out that post in a hurry 'cause people were waiting to go to lunch. I just re-read it, and I said something about it being my thing and fortunately others here appreciate it. I meant that others here at the company got it and wanted to run with it (as opposed to appeasing me). However, in reading that just after Darwin posted that he wasn't sure he digs it, well, my phrasing might have seemed like I was sticking it to Darwin and others "here" (GbL) appreciate it. Whoa, not good. Darwin, if that thought occurred to you when reading my reply I'm super duper sorry.

Moving along...

I had a lot of thoughts about using a plate versus a decal. Sure, you can take off the plate. Heck, anyone could swap out plates. Of course, that was true for almost 20 years as we had serial numbers on neck plates and bridges. It wasn't until '97 that we used decals. One thing that bummed me out about decals is that you get a new serial number if the neck is replaced. This peeved me to no end and I would tell people around here that I would be a god-awful customer to have if I needed a neck replaced. In the "old days" necks could be swapped but the serial number stayed the same. But you could just as easily swap a neck plate or bridge, meaning could make your own Broadcaster if you have the neck [edit: I wrote bridge duh] plate. As for a decal serial number, well, that's easier to reproduce than the logos on the front, and if the goal is to use a genuine guitar but fake a serial number decal, that's super easy. Faking the serial number on the new plate takes way more effort to reproduce convincingly.

Back and forth it went. But for me, the headstock plate was the way to go. The serial number is not tied to a neck plate, bridge or some other part like the old days. It also means that the serial numbers are finally meaningful. They're right there in final assembly, being put on as things are being assembled, and they're in real, sequential order, not the random batches of neck plates or bridges as we did in the '80s and '90s.

What's more, the serial number is tied to a certificate, so that serial number is tied to that guitar with that description and that Plek number. By the way, did you see on the certificate that the Plek number is recorded?

So, you can see I really banged this around. It came down to the aesthetics. I fell in love with the badge concept and worked out the design with the graphic artist, what went where and what it said, and hung out the amp face rep and picked out the brushed aluminum material. We might be able to do something to improve it, maybe it can be countersunk or maybe different screws (those are the same ones we use for bass keys).

One more thing: the headstock plate and Custom Build Specifications certificate launched together, starting with CLF061000 (note the extra zero after CLF to allow growth).

Thanks again, guys.

Dave

It's interesting that someone mentioned having it inset into the wood, because I was thinking that, too.

I appreicate the idea behind it, to make it classy...these are classy guitars! The envelope is definitely classy...could even frame that thing! And I love the spec sheet signed by Steve Grom, so thumbs up there!!

And I'll be the devils advocate on the waterslide decal under the finish coat being permanent...give me a pocketknife and a few minutes and I'll remove the decal...of course, it would be obvious it was tampered with.

I just asked Steve to see if he can get me a decent photo of a headstock with the serial number plate and a scan of a Custom Build Specifications certificate.

Dave

Steve just snapped this photo.



I'll get the scan of a certificate tomorrow.

Dave

Does "The Birthplace of Bolt-on" refer to Michael Bolt-on?

Does "The Birthplace of Bolt-on" refer to Michael Bolt-on?

Oh, crap, didn't think of that. I have a cousin named Michael Bolton and he plays G&Ls. I'm sure when he sees this I'm gonna hear about it. ;- )

Does "The Birthplace of Bolt-on" refer to Michael Bolt-on?

I just spat my cup of tea on the keyboard. Damn you Jamie.

My intent was not to open Pandoras box but Dave has responded and more pictures are to be posted. Actually the plate that he posted is a pretty respectable looking plate. Any change they make will cause comments. For example. 3 to 4 bolt neck and I am sure there are many others. It took me a few days to discover the small dots on the side of the neck. I think back to the serial number on the Mahogany Bluesboy that I traded last week. It had the beautiful Red headstock/neck and the serial number was perfect little black letters on that Red headstock under a high gloss paint. That is a class act. My birdseye maple headstock, with the chrome locking tuners on the S-500 is awesome art in itself and is worthy of being in an art gallery. This is not going to hinder me. When I order my custom ASAT all decked out with the flamed neck, high gloss finish and flamed fretboard with ss frets and anything else that I can hang on it, I am going to request that the serial number tag and screws be sent in a little plastic bag with the guitar. I will always have it available for inspection. I just had a beer and I can' t imagine I even asked the question about the serial tag. Dave, you guys do great work and don't spend a lot of time on this, but I do appreciate that you guys are watching and care. That in itself is much more important to this old dude!!! Don't be surprised if I order amber ghost flames in the natural colored maple flamed top on this ASAT either. It will not have a Bigsby, but a DF. I would also like an ASAT GHOST logo put on it. I can't order this until the weather is warm as I would not ship anything while it is freezing outside. Do I have time for another one??? Darwin

Dave, what about a system like Glock auto pistols? They have the s/n stamped into the barrel (visible at the ejection port); and a metal s/n strip is also embedded into the polymer frame in front of the trigger guard. So what I'm saying is, why not adopt a system where the body s/n is mated to an identical neck s/n?

I've seen a lot of vintage Fender neck plates for sale over the years, making it easier for a counterfeiter. A matched set of numbers might make it more difficult.

Thanks,

Bill

I think the plates look great. I just barely missed it! Bummer!

hi alll,

i ordered a asat bluesboy from my local dealer the 2nd week of Jan '11 (he said it will take 8-12 weeks)

do you think it will come with new serial plate?

hi alll,

i ordered a asat bluesboy from my local dealer the 2nd week of Jan '11 (he said it will take 8-12 weeks)

do you think it will come with new serial plate?

I would say it is very likely that it will have the serial number plate and Custom Build Certificate.
Definitely let us know when you get the guitar.

Steve just snapped this photo.



I'll get the scan of a certificate tomorrow.

Dave

Dave sent me this scan of the Custom Build Specifications certificate to post.



Thanks, Dave!

I think the certificate is a very good idea.

I do no like the serial number plate. After several minutes starring at it, I dislike it more. I think, I'd put it off and fill the screw holes with some wood from a tooth pick.

It remembers me to much on type labels for machines, like this:

Steve just snapped this photo.



I'll get the scan of a certificate tomorrow.

Dave

Dave sent me this scan of the Custom Build Specifications certificate to post.



Thanks, Dave!

Is the certificate supplied with every US made G&L or only custom builds / orders ?

Is the certificate supplied with every US made G&L or only custom builds / orders ?

All US made G&L instruments, starting with serial number CLF061000.

Hope this helps.

Had a close look at the Certificate - how do I get a job as "Evaluation Technician"?

It remembers me to much on type labels for machines, like this:

Too bad they couldn't laser etch the numbers into the headstock. That would look great and be hard to imitate... Oh, Miles, that Tornado unit is a bit obscure but I dig it.


Cheers,

Will

Craig/Dave, thanks for posting the serial plate and certificate. The certificate is a class act! Now we know what to expect. --Darwin

I'm with most of you guys on the certificate. I love it!! But I'm still on the fence as far as the S/N plate. But I love G&L Guitars. So you put what ever you want on the body, just don't stop the great "QUALITY" that you build into every guitar. That is why I bought my G&L and not that "OTHER" guitar.-Rod

I dig it as long as it doesn't get in the way. Maybe they should use those tiny pet ID capsules, but placed in the body instead of a wood plug. Then you could just scan the guitar and all the info would pop up... Darth, throw me an axe if you entertain this idea...


Cheers,

Will

I dig it as long as it doesn't get in the way. Maybe they should use those tiny pet ID capsules, but placed in the body instead of a wood plug. Then you could just scan the guitar and all the info would pop up... Darth, throw me an axe if you entertain this idea...


Cheers,

Will

Carvin used to (and still might not sure) do this with 'SNAGG" RFID chips in the neck, about end fo the fretboard. The idea was you could verify an instrument is yours and whatnot easily, and help curb theft. Most places not having a scanner, or caring (pawn shops etc) kind of defeats this though.

Ok. Then maybe some type of bicycle chain for guitars. I'm kidding.


Cheers,

Will

Hey all! Just bought a new G&L and just now put it down long enough to join and post! Anyway, I think you could move the plate over and use the "belly button" hole for one of the screws - save a little labor on filling the hole! Just a thought and you can send me a free guitar if you like it! You could also recess the tag and use flat head countersunk screws to make it smooth across the headstock.

I like the tag and see it like a military dog tag...a badge of honor if you will. Long live G&L!

Hi guys,

Let me explain why we did this. First of all, it's way more expensive than the decals. Not that it's earth shattering either way, but these we had made by a company that does amp faceplates and other things. It's certainly not more convenient, it's more effort. So, more cost, more labor, more hassle.

This is about presentation, and it was all my thing. Fortunately, others here also appreciate it. These are beautiful instruments and they're continuing to get better in terms of quality and level of customization. A serial number decal is not very special. I wanted something special, something that celebrates the quality of this instrument is and the place where it was made.

It's a little piece of jewelry. It's a little brushed aluminum piece, but it communicates a lot. No more do we have US instruments that don't say "Made in the US" as some sort of stamp. May as well be made wherever with that exciting line. This instrument is Made in Fullerton, California, USA, and we're proud of that. Notice the tag line "The Birthplace of Bolt-on" just below. This celebrates our heritage, of Leo's, of the town. This is where the magic first happens and where the magic still does.

A the same time, I wanted a certificate that similarly celebrates the instrument. Not just a data sheet, but something worthy of the instrument. It's on 60 lb. parchment, with the borders pre-printed. We set up a database system just for making these certificates, and I spent many days helping to design it, test it and implement it. Steve Grom personally signs each one before it goes into the elegant black enveloped foil embossed with the G&L logo.

I hope you'll enjoy this little touch.

Dave

The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Nice thought on the s/n plate but the transformation to reality falls short. I would not buy a new G&L specifically because of that plate and would look for previous stock or used gear in the future. Or, I would custom order a G&L and request and even insist that the plate be omitted.

Hi guys,

Let me explain why we did this. First of all, it's way more expensive than the decals. Not that it's earth shattering either way, but these we had made by a company that does amp faceplates and other things. It's certainly not more convenient, it's more effort. So, more cost, more labor, more hassle.

This is about presentation, and it was all my thing. Fortunately, others here also appreciate it. These are beautiful instruments and they're continuing to get better in terms of quality and level of customization. A serial number decal is not very special. I wanted something special, something that celebrates the quality of this instrument is and the place where it was made.

It's a little piece of jewelry. It's a little brushed aluminum piece, but it communicates a lot. No more do we have US instruments that don't say "Made in the US" as some sort of stamp. May as well be made wherever with that exciting line. This instrument is Made in Fullerton, California, USA, and we're proud of that. Notice the tag line "The Birthplace of Bolt-on" just below. This celebrates our heritage, of Leo's, of the town. This is where the magic first happens and where the magic still does.

A the same time, I wanted a certificate that similarly celebrates the instrument. Not just a data sheet, but something worthy of the instrument. It's on 60 lb. parchment, with the borders pre-printed. We set up a database system just for making these certificates, and I spent many days helping to design it, test it and implement it. Steve Grom personally signs each one before it goes into the elegant black enveloped foil embossed with the G&L logo.

I hope you'll enjoy this little touch.

Dave

The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Nice thought on the s/n plate but the transformation to reality falls short. I would not buy a new G&L specifically because of that plate and would look for previous stock or used gear in the future. Or, I would custom order a G&L and request and even insist that the plate be omitted.

+1 - I also would not buy a G&L with the ugly plate. If G&L wants to do something unique in the serial # area - How about an inlay instead?

I don't think the plates look bad, but I'm not too crazy about a S/N that can be removed so easily. Yeah, I know a decal can be quickly scraped off too....

The idea of an inlay is interesting, but just mounting the plate flush seems like it would gain a bit more appeal 'round here.....

I don't think the plates look bad, but I'm not too crazy about a S/N that can be removed so easily. Yeah, I know a decal can be quickly scraped off too....

The idea of an inlay is interesting, but just mounting the plate flush seems like it would gain a bit more appeal 'round here.....

I would say lazer cut a depression, and epoxy it in. Fender did some logos like that iirc, looks very nice. I have a Abalone logo on my bass, likely similar methods are applied (and yes, it is actually shell).

I still think at minimum the thing needs to be recessed and flush mounted. It looks like someones idea of a great mod... You know those ones that involve drilling holes to big and such.

I don't think the plates look bad, but I'm not too crazy about a S/N that can be removed so easily. Yeah, I know a decal can be quickly scraped off too....

The idea of an inlay is interesting, but just mounting the plate flush seems like it would gain a bit more appeal 'round here.....

I would say lazer cut a depression, and epoxy it in. Fender did some logos like that iirc, looks very nice. I have a Abalone logo on my bass, likely similar methods are applied (and yes, it is actually shell).

I still think at minimum the thing needs to be recessed and flush mounted. It looks like someones idea of a great mod... You know those ones that involve drilling holes to big and such.

Have you got any pics of that? To see how it looks? It sounds a good solution.
Ta. Bill

I don't have a picture of the fender and can't narrow down what model it was, but here is the shell logo I have.

Explaining what I do not like about the plate and why I think it falls short of the goal... the plate itself is too thick, it is screwed on and the heads of the screws protrude like pimples. It all adds up to a relatively bulky embellishment slapped on the outside of the guitar rather than being a well-integrated piece perceived as "jewelry." Perhaps it could be an embellishment on an amp, a stompbox or its personalized hardshell case but not a guitar. Something like this should be at least a quarter of the size, made with a thinner gauge of material and either glued on, embedded or riveted somehow. As it is, the plate might work better if it was attached sort of like a dog tag in addition to a permanent serial number on the guitar and provided it did not risk damage to the guitar. Something that acted like a picture frame made of rubber could protect the guitar if these were attached like a dog tag.

On the subject of jewelry, I think the tailpiece on G&L guitars is one of the finest looking around.

Dave it is a great idea and increase the value .For me its very positive

But for me, the headstock plate was the way to go. The serial number is not tied to a neck plate, bridge or some other part like the old days. It also means that the serial numbers are finally meaningful. They're right there in final assembly, being put on as things are being assembled, and they're in real, sequential order, not the random batches of neck plates or bridges as we did in the '80s and '90s.

What's more, the serial number is tied to a certificate, so that serial number is tied to that guitar with that description and that Plek number. By the way, did you see on the certificate that the Plek number is recorded?

So, you can see I really banged this around. It came down to the aesthetics. I fell in love with the badge concept and worked out the design with the graphic artist, what went where and what it said, and hung out the amp face rep and picked out the brushed aluminum material. We might be able to do something to improve it, maybe it can be countersunk or maybe different screws (those are the same ones we use for bass keys).

One more thing: the headstock plate and Custom Build Specifications certificate launched together, starting with CLF061000 (note the extra zero after CLF to allow growth).

Dave

But I can understand Micaels concern

the plate itself is too thick, it is screwed on and the heads of the screws protrude like pimples. It all adds up to a relatively bulky embellishment slapped on the outside of the guitar rather than being a well-integrated piece perceived as "jewelry."

For me (my 5 cents-Own 3 G&L's-->therfore novice) I have following comments

As it now produdes that flat surface of the headstock it may become an obstacle
Now you machine the neck anyway you could machine a (shallow 0,3 mm)pocket into the back of the headstock and blue it in with double adhesive tape-->will be lass manhours as well
The plate is mainly printed a bit more design like an outline may look better to some eyes
After all I think this is the G&L logo



So I would make plate and pocket oval

Then again just my 5 cents
(When I would have known/recognized I would have waited on my Inavader purchase (CLF 60053)

Roland

I've stated it elsewhere, as well did rampagingsloth in this thread above, in lieu of routing a pocket in the back of the headstock, at least countersinking the holes in the plates and using flathead screws would do an incredible amount to make it look more integrated. After all, no roundheads are uses to mount the pickguards, are they?

- Jos

Edit: Given Michael's comment below, I actually checked some stuff. Pickguards have countersunk holes, but the screws used are in between flat- and roundheads. Don't know what they are called. Shouldn't you do that before you state something? Yup, you should

Last edited by yowhatsshakin on Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am coming close to repeating myself however if G&L does reconsider the s/n plate it might work better in chrome instead of the material it is now.

BTW, The pickguard on my Legacy (a 2010 or 2011 build?) is not mounted with flush flat head screws. They are not the half spherical heads that the new s/n plate seems to use but they are round headed screws. They do not bother me at all the way they are. A pickguard is a proportionally large piece and such screws do not stand out. They are functional and do not pose a problem while their appearance does not draw any attention.

Pickguard screws are to some extent countersunk, as well as not being a full out pan head though, they are tapered on the underside.

Long time lurker, first time poster. Decided to finally register in order to express my opinion on the new serial number plates.

While many obviously don't care for them, I personally really, really like them. I think they stand out, in a good way. So much so that I went out and picked up a new Legacy HB just to have one with the new plate.

And as a matter of disclosure, I live in Fullerton so seeing my hometown on there certainly plays a part in the pride.

Nacho,

First welcome to the forum! And I for one truly appreciate your opinion. Although I think nobody actually has qualms with the shape and/or contents but rather the way it is mounted, it is good to hear there are people out there that like them.

- Jos

I've had a change of heart. I like the plate now. While I haven't seen one in person, the pictures have endeared themselves to me.

Kudos and apologies, Darth - you were right all along!

I've had a change of heart. I like the plate now. While I haven't seen one in person, the pictures have endeared themselves to me.

Kudos and apologies, Darth - you were right all along!

I like them too! Bill