1992 Legacy NGD

Well, it was an exciting evening as the UPS truck dropped off a guitar for me! I have a 2014 Comanche that I play all the time, but I've always wanted a maple fretboard G&L to complement it. A few weeks ago I saw this "old" Legacy on reverb.com. The price was great, but the catch was a "stuck truss rod". I hemmed and hawed for a while and haggled some and eventually decided to take the risk.

Before I get to the truss rod story...what a guitar! Wow I can see why people like these 90s Legacys. The neck is a little slim for me, but everything feels super solid and nice, and the pickups definitely scream. The guitar has a TON of playing wear and dirt (which was hard to photograph). I don't know if I should be grossed out or in awe, haha. But it definitely feels nicely broken in. The finish is nicely sunken into the ash, which looks cool. The body's contours are a lot "sharper" than my modern G&L, which is neat too.

The neck pocket says 1992, is that the first year of the Legacy? That would be pretty cool!

So the truss rod...at first I could turn the nut and feel the whole rod flexing. Not good. I was prepared to try a few different strategies to get it free, including heat, pb blaster, etc. My first try actually worked! I just sat there with a 50W soldering iron on the nut for about 5 minutes. It started to smell a little, so I figured it was hot. I have one of those "gripper" StewMac truss rod wrenches which I used. I torked the bolt very far in the "loosen" direction, and after a few seconds heard a loud pop. At first I thought I broke the truss rod, but after a few turns it became clear that the truss rod nut was freed. Woohoo!!! I applied a good bit of grease to the threads of the nut before reinstalling it.

The only catch seems to be that the neck came with a lot of relief (no surprise) and it doesn't seem to go away when I tighten the truss rod. I guess it's been in that position for too long now? Any ideas? I have the truss rod pretty tight, I'm hoping if I let it sit that way for a while the neck will get straighter.

A few more questions about the guitar as I'm not super familiar with older G&Ls:
Are these the Seymour Duncan pickups that everybody raves about from the early Legacys?
The neck and fretboard look to be gloss finished, but the headstock is satin. Is that normal? Or it could just be from so much play wear.
And I noticed the volume pot has a treble bleed cap on it...is that original? Seems out of the ordinary on a Legacy but I do like how it sounds.
Same question for the Alpha-brand pots and strange copper baseplate in the control cavity.
Is the date in the swimming pool the final assembly date?

Anyway, how about some photos???

nice legacy, xg5a. looks like the neck has some experience. with some good tone wood in the body, some groovy p'ups and a sunburst finish, should be able to squeeze some great tones out of that one. i hope the saga of the neck continues in a positive way for you.

Congratulations xg5a!

Thanks for the background and all pictures, looks like you got a real winner. Especially if the hang tag price in the last pic is what you got her for.

As you play her more post updates.

Congratulations xg5a!

Thanks for the background and all pictures, looks like you got a real winner. Especially if the hang tag price in the last pic is what you got her for.

As you play her more post updates.

Oh haha I didn't realize I got that in the pic. No actually I paid quite a bit less, because of the truss rod issue. A little over $400 including shipping. So I'm really happy about that!!! I'm guessing that tag might be what the person before me paid, though, just because of the general condition, etc.

Nice score. I'd take it to a luthier and have them heat/clamp the neck straight.

Nice looking guitar! Looks quite a bit like my 1975 Fender Strat.

I can tell you know a lot about the mechanics of a guitar so this may not add anything new at all. I picked up a used Tribute about a year and a half ago which came with a swapped neck. The neck had more relief than I like; I like my guitar neck almost dead straight. Since I don't want to be aggressive with neck adjustment I gave it a half a turn and let it sit for a few day. This continued on for about a couple of months where I tightened the truss rod 3 times, each time letting the neck sit for at least a week or two. After the gradual adjustment the neck is now perfect for how I play, and it is now one of my favorites to play.

You have yourself a great guitar for a silly price. Great grain in the ash body, nice SB finish. Pickups do look like Duncans. Had a set in an old Strat and they were as good as anything.

Congrats on your new axe and nice job on sorting the truss rod issue.
Yep, those are Seymour Duncans pickups as indidcated by the letter codes on the small white stickers. I believe they are the vintage models... and are great pu's IMB. I've owned a set that was taken out of a same era Legacy which the owner had instatlled Hot rails in.
The shots of the back of the neck does look like a gloss finish tho the front side appears satin to my eyes. BBE implemented heaps of changes one being doing away with gloss finishes... yours being an early one might be some kind of and transitional model. I noticed there all Japanese pots installed which I don't believed they used although the tone capacitor may be stock one. Fellow board member Jos might be able to chime in and shed some more light on things. Either way, its looks great! These early models IMO really retain a lot of the Mojo of the Leo-era instruments... the ones that followed were sorely lacking as more and more 'improvements' were implemented.

Cheers,
KF

Great score. Also check how the pots are wired. Are yours the PTB circuit with both tone controls affecting all pickups? Or is it the Fender Strat wiring with separate tone pots for the neck and middle pickup and the bridge pickup lacking a tone control? If the latter, is this even though the pots are as expected for a PTB circuit? See this write-up on the PTB circuit compared to the traditional Strat harness found on some early Legacies.

- Jos

Great score. Also check how the pots are wired. Are yours the PTB circuit with both tone controls affecting all pickups? Or is it the Fender Strat wiring with separate tone pots for the neck and middle pickup and the bridge pickup lacking a tone control? If the latter, is this even though the pots are as expected for a PTB circuit? See this write-up on the PTB circuit compared to the traditional Strat harness found on some early Legacies.

- Jos

Oh yeah it's definitely the PTB setup. The treble pot has a pretty weak effect though and it comes in all at the end. I need to check if the pot is bad or if someone swapped in a smaller capacitor.

Congrats on your new axe and nice job on sorting the truss rod issue.
Yep, those are Seymour Duncans pickups as indidcated by the letter codes on the small white stickers. I believe they are the vintage models... and are great pu's IMB. I've owned a set that was taken out of a same era Legacy which the owner had instatlled Hot rails in.
The shots of the back of the neck does look like a gloss finish tho the front side appears satin to my eyes. BBE implemented heaps of changes one being doing away with gloss finishes... yours being an early one might be some kind of and transitional model. I noticed there all Japanese pots installed which I don't believed they used although the tone capacitor may be stock one. Fellow board member Jos might be able to chime in and shed some more light on things. Either way, its looks great! These early models IMO really retain a lot of the Mojo of the Leo-era instruments... the ones that followed were sorely lacking as more and more 'improvements' were implemented.

Cheers,
KF

I know just what you mean about the Leo-era vibe. I haven't played many old G&Ls but the guitar just feels VERY different than my modern Comanche in a lot of ways. It's really cool! I like both guitars a lot, and it's cool to get to know this older guitar. My newer G&L has this super solid "perfection" vibe to it which I LOVE but the old G&L has personality which is really fun too.

Speaking of the older G&L vibe,oOne thing I think is super cool is the 1 piece maple neck with no skunk stripe. Of course there bi cut construction is how they got the truss rod in there, but it's so elegant. The seam in the neck is barely visible so it kind of looks like the truss rod was teleported in there.

Oh and the gloss on the neck and fretboard is actually kind of subtle. Not at all like the body or on a full gloss finished neck. It's not sticky and feels super thin, which I like a lot.

Nice looking guitar! Looks quite a bit like my 1975 Fender Strat.

I can tell you know a lot about the mechanics of a guitar so this may not add anything new at all. I picked up a used Tribute about a year and a half ago which came with a swapped neck. The neck had more relief than I like; I like my guitar neck almost dead straight. Since I don't want to be aggressive with neck adjustment I gave it a half a turn and let it sit for a few day. This continued on for about a couple of months where I tightened the truss rod 3 times, each time letting the neck sit for at least a week or two. After the gradual adjustment the neck is now perfect for how I play, and it is now one of my favorites to play.

This is a great strategy, as opposed to super torquing the truss rod all in one shot. Thanks for the idea! The only other method I've found so far is this heat setting method from my friends at the Warmoth forum.
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=25429.0
Seems a little drastic although I bet it would work!

Here is an example of what to *absolutely not* do (that worked for me once regardless) : I had a guitar with a back-bowed neck I needed to introduce some concavity to. It was a cheap guitar, so I removed the rod nut, placed the guitar on a chair, sat on the body, and pulled on the neck (starting at the higher frets, working toward the headstock.) Bingo! The neck had relief again, and I was able to adjust it down with the nut to my liking. Guitar is fine to this day.

So I tried my trick on another (cheap) guitar - this time it again worked; but the finish on the neck cracked somewhat and six months later in hot weather, the fretboard popped off. (Again - why I mentioned don't do this.) That's why for my third guitar with a bowed neck (which was a more expensive one, a US Strat) I had the luthier heat it and clamp relief into it in a safe way. I still recommend that

*I actually re-glued the fretboard on that guitar, refinished the neck, and it's fine; so happy ending for my $40 beater guitar.

Well I had some time this weekend to try a few different strategies on the neck. Like I mentioned simply tightening the truss rod seems unable to remove the relief. So I found this helpful video from StewMac, where they recommend clamping the neck to remove the warp first, then tightening the truss rod.

phpBB [video]

Unfortunately I can only get rid of around half of the relief with this method. And, the neck seems to take on a twist when I do so. Yikes!

I know this sort of stuff is really hard to see in photos, but here's after the adjustment:


And before:


So now I'm thinking cooking the neck might be the next best thing to try. And if that doesn't work, maybe look at replacement necks.

How about taking it to a professional. Have you tried that? That twist is pretty severe and you are approaching total failure of the neck sub straight. I believe it's time to cut your loss and head to the ER with this one.

Tom

Great looking Legacy, I love it when there's stark contrast in the sunburst colours.

I'd take it to a pro to get that neck sorted out, its cheaper than a full replacement if you botch it.

And that gloss finish is genuine played in wear on what was originally satin - its the same on my '93 ASAT and is an unbeatable feel.

Well I tried the oven baking method that I linked to above from the Warmoth forum. For sure it carried a lot of risk, but it looks like it worked!

It took two tries. I found a rigid metal rail in the scrap metal bin at work, and clamped the neck into a backbox a little more than I wanted to end up with. For the first try I baked the neck at 175F for 1 hour, and it sprung right back to its original shape. For the second try I did 190F for 3 hours, and also made the backbow clamping a little more severe. And this time I guessed right!

After baking, I was able to set the neck so that with the truss rod loose it has a tiny bit of backbow without strings, and is dead straight when strung up. And it hasn't moved yet after a week or so under full string tension with 10's on the guitar. SUCCESS!

Interestingly the truss rod still doesn't seem to move the neck much though. Also now that I can get the action low I'm seeing that there are a fair number of high frets, but I can just do a level+crown on them or do a refret if needed. I definitely dried out the neck wood a bit too, as the fret ends were protruding after the baking and I had to grind them flush with a file.



This all being said, let me add that I don't advocate anybody else tries this on their guitar! The people who commented that I should have taken it to a luthier are definitely right, and I took a big risk here.

I'm trying to learn lutherie and I'm already comfortable with refretting, guitar setup, and electronics, plus some woodworking and finishing. So I felt like I could probably fix the neck in the likely ways it could get messed up. And my plan b was/is to try my hand at building a replacement neck for the guitar. Honestly I still may try it, to get a wider nut and larger profile, and I'll conserve/preserve the original neck.

Glad it worked - I think if it was clamped pretty flat, you probably won't need much tension on the rod anyway. The oven concept makes me nervous but in the end it's probably about the same result as a pro would have done. I've heard necks repaired with heat can sometimes need to be re-heated down the line, but my Strat neck is still fine a couple years in.

Bravo. Great results. I hope it lasts. I am also somewhat surprised that you only clamped the neck in one place. Any reason for not putting a clamp at each end as well? Just curious.

Tom

Bravo. Great results. I hope it lasts. I am also somewhat surprised that you only clamped the neck in one place. Any reason for not putting a clamp at each end as well? Just curious.

Tom

The neck had a forward bow (fretboard low in the middle) before the heat treatment. So, by clamping in the middle, the two ends of the fretboard were pushed into the rail first, and as I tightened the clamp the middle touched the rail too and the fretboard was straight. So I only needed a single clamp to hold the neck in the correct shape (hopefully that makes sense)

In the 2nd heat treatment, I actually put some thin wood shims under the ends of the fretboard, so that by clamping in the middle the neck was bent into a bit of a backbow. I'd say the shims were about 1mm thick, and the clamping mechanics were all the same.

And I agree, I hope it lasts! Whether it does or not is anybody's guess, for sure.

Bravo. Great results. I hope it lasts. I am also somewhat surprised that you only clamped the neck in one place. Any reason for not putting a clamp at each end as well? Just curious.

Tom

The neck had a forward bow (fretboard low in the middle) before the heat treatment. So, by clamping in the middle, the two ends of the fretboard were pushed into the rail first, and as I tightened the clamp the middle touched the rail too and the fretboard was straight. So I only needed a single clamp to hold the neck in the correct shape (hopefully that makes sense)

In the 2nd heat treatment, I actually put some thin wood shims under the ends of the fretboard, so that by clamping in the middle the neck was bent into a bit of a backbow. I'd say the shims were about 1mm thick, and the clamping mechanics were all the same.

And I agree, I hope it lasts! Whether it does or not is anybody's guess, for sure.

That makes sense. I wonder if adding steam to the mix would be of any benefit or be harmful. Any thoughts? Even just a pot of boiling water placed in the oven with the neck.

Tom

That makes sense. I wonder if adding steam to the mix would be of any benefit or be harmful. Any thoughts? Even just a pot of boiling water placed in the oven with the neck.

Tom

I did consider steam, but decided not to use it as I thought it would make the whole process much more aggressive. For instance steam is used for bending acoustic guitar sides, which is much more drastic than what I did here. And after bending sides, the wood looks terrible and needs a lot of sanding (the grain is raised, splinters stick out, etc.).
So I thought steam might open up the bicut glue joint, and/or wreck the finish and decal, plus it might bend the neck too much or destabilize it or something.

I might have tried steam if the dry heat didn't work though. Either that or pulling the frets and planing the fretboard flat.