Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:03 am
ADYAPOOP wrote:louis cyfer wrote:the tuners are all wrong. the low should be the high e, the a tuner goes to the low e, the d tuner to the a, the g tuner to the d, and the high e to the g. having the high e tuner at the low e puts too much angle on the nut, and it will keep going out of tune, even if the nut is properly cut. i also don't understand why they put string trees with the graduated height locking tuners. it's idiotic.
COuld I do this by myself? Isn't it just a matter of taking the strings off, and taking off the tuners and putting them where they belong? Because if thats the case then it would save me from having to not have my guitar for 2 weeks, (yes, the people at the shop are very slow aswell).
Elwood wrote:Thanks for the clarification Craig.
So the high e and low E need to be swapped, then the d and the g .
I'm learning bit by bit too.
elwood
Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:56 am
ADYAPOOP wrote:Wow you guys are good . Im just stumped as to why this sort of thing could happen at all? What would need to happen to get the tuners sorted out correctly, I'm going to take it in the shop today, and what exactly should I tell the guys there about the issue?
Craig, here it is:
Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:00 pm
Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:58 pm
Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:19 pm
Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:32 pm
ADYAPOOP wrote:Thx elwood, unfortunetaly that didnt solve the problem. When I push on the bar all the strings either go sharp or flat. When I pull on the whammy all of the strings still always go sharp. uuuuuggghhhhh ... It's so frustrating. The people at G&L SHOULD NOT ship out a guitar that has not been properly set up...
Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:11 pm
Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:08 am
Elwood wrote:I would raise the bridge 1/8 of an inch (1/3 to 1/2 a turn counterclockwise on each hex head bridge post) just to see if it helps.
Is the nut glued in tight ? (just trying to eliminate things that would affect the tremelo return)
The nut slots might need to be smoothed a bit, does the low E slot look mis-shaped due to the extreme angle the string was at before?
Are the neck bolts (actually screws) tight? (again ,eliminating any possibility of slack)
If raising the bridge ( just a little) improves the 'pulling up /staying sharp' , then you've identified one problem .
all my best,
Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:15 am
Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:51 am
louis cyfer wrote:if they go sharp when you pull up, that means the bridge is not returning to zero position. that is an entirely uncommon occurrence with tremolos, a lot of people push slightly down after pulling up as to let the bridge zero itself. it sounds like the e slot in the low e does need work as well. time to take it to a good tech, this is probably beyond your current skill level (skill in trouble shooting that is), but do not go back to the store. they are idiots. also, ask the tech if you can stay and watch, so you can ask questions and have a better understanding.
Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:19 am
Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:28 am
louis cyfer wrote:if they go sharp when you pull up, that means the bridge is not returning to zero position. that is an entirely uncommon occurrence with tremolos, a lot of people push slightly down after pulling up as to let the bridge zero itself. it sounds like the e slot in the low e does need work as well. time to take it to a good tech, this is probably beyond your current skill level (skill in trouble shooting that is), but do not go back to the store. they are idiots. also, ask the tech if you can stay and watch, so you can ask questions and have a better understanding.
Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:12 pm
Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:20 pm
NickHorne wrote:Please excuse me for repeating my little diagnostic query which probably went unnoticed back on page 1:
Either leave the low E string off, or slacken it right off to looseness.
Now tell us what the other five strings do when you dive, and when you pull up.
NickHorne wrote:It seems extremely likely that something relating to the low E is a major contributor to your problem.
NickHorne wrote:And fiing nuts carries a significant risk of damaging your finish on the headstock unless you're very aware and careful, even if you have suitable materials available for masking off the vulnerable areas. And masking tape alone is NOT enough! The file will go straight through it in one sorry slice.
Nuts are cut with special files of various sizes in order to create the accurate slots for the various strings. The slightness of the filing required, as well as the care and patience involved, are surprising to anyone doing it for the first time.
NickHorne wrote:You seem to have been adjusting a lot of adjustable things, when you are probably needing to focus on finding one, or at most two, key issues.
Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:16 pm
Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:31 am
Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:17 am
Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:34 am
NickHorne wrote:Could I ask one more question, to help complete my picture of what's going on?
How far (approximately) are you pulling up? A semitone, or a few?
Thanks.
Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:37 am
NickHorne wrote:Please excuse me for repeating my little diagnostic query which probably went unnoticed back on page 1:
Either leave the low E string off, or slacken it right off to looseness.
Now tell us what the other five strings do when you dive, and when you pull up.
It seems extremely likely that something relating to the low E is a major contributor to your problem.
Before filing your nut slot(s), which is irreversible and will require a replacement nut if it is not done right, PLEASE make this simple check.
And fiing nuts carries a significant risk of damaging your finish on the headstock unless you're very aware and careful, even if you have suitable materials available for masking off the vulnerable areas. And masking tape alone is NOT enough! The file will go straight through it in one sorry slice.
Nuts are cut with special files of various sizes in order to create the accurate slots for the various strings. The slightness of the filing required, as well as the care and patience involved, are surprising to anyone doing it for the first time.
You seem to have been adjusting a lot of adjustable things, when you are probably needing to focus on finding one, or at most two, key issues.
Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:56 am
NickHorne wrote:Could I ask one more question, to help complete my picture of what's going on?
How far (approximately) are you pulling up? A semitone, or a few?
Thanks.
Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:15 pm
Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:40 pm
NickHorne wrote:It seems the low E is an isolated problem when diving; it sticks in its nut slot and goes sharp when the bridge comes back up.
I had hoped that the low E might also be responsible for at least some of your pulling-up symptom (again sticking in its slot, reducing the available string tension to bring the bridge back down).
But it seems there are two separate problems at work, since the pull-up-stays-sharp symptom remains when the low E is taken out of the equation.
The low E is very likely a nut issue. And even once the nut is optimised, you may find it can be good practice to leave enough string, before locking, to take a full turn around the low E peg, but wind it above the hole, rather than below. This can fix a common problem of Fender-type headstocks, where the the low E takes a very extreme angle at the nut unless wound in this way.
Too steep an angle very often leads to the E6 getting caught at the nut.
But the sharpness after pulling up has to be in the bridge system. if there is no rubbing of block, springs etc against the body, then there are really only the pivots left for suspects.
This ought to be a warranty issue. But your dealer doesn't inspire confidence. Perhaps Craig could advise further?
Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:19 pm
Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:42 pm
ADYAPOOP wrote:NickHorne wrote:It seems the low E is an isolated problem when diving; it sticks in its nut slot and goes sharp when the bridge comes back up.
I had hoped that the low E might also be responsible for at least some of your pulling-up symptom (again sticking in its slot, reducing the available string tension to bring the bridge back down).
But it seems there are two separate problems at work, since the pull-up-stays-sharp symptom remains when the low E is taken out of the equation.
The low E is very likely a nut issue. And even once the nut is optimised, you may find it can be good practice to leave enough string, before locking, to take a full turn around the low E peg, but wind it above the hole, rather than below. This can fix a common problem of Fender-type headstocks, where the the low E takes a very extreme angle at the nut unless wound in this way.
Too steep an angle very often leads to the E6 getting caught at the nut.
But the sharpness after pulling up has to be in the bridge system. if there is no rubbing of block, springs etc against the body, then there are really only the pivots left for suspects.
This ought to be a warranty issue. But your dealer doesn't inspire confidence. Perhaps Craig could advise further?
thanks for the prompt response, Nick. So as far as the Low E, i should wrap it once around the peg ABOVE the hole, the pull tight and lock it?
I will definitely bring the pictures of the headstock with the tuners misplaced and show them, so maybe they can do something about fixing the nut slot, since they did SELL me the guitar.
Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:01 pm
Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:31 pm
ADYAPOOP wrote:hey Craig,
I will bring it into the store. Do you think i should show them the picture of how the tuners were previously placed , or not ? thx
Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:18 pm
Craig wrote:ADYAPOOP wrote:BTW, who is the selling dealer?
Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:56 am
ADYAPOOP wrote:Craig wrote:ADYAPOOP wrote:BTW, who is the selling dealer?
Right, thank u for the advice, and the dealer is KAOS MUSIC CENTRE.
Craig wrote:If they cannot (well not) get it operating the way it should be, request that they return it to the factory for further inspection and resolution under warranty.