Tribute Legacy issues

[pvan]

I bought a new Tribute Legacy about a month or two ago. I like the guitar but I noticed a couple disconcerting things.

1. I set the tremolo up to be 4/64 from the body per the setup guide in one of the forum posts. When I have it set this way, the action is slightly high even when the saddles are bottomed out on the tremolo plate. I could lower the tremolo but I do like the floating aspect of the 4/64 setup. I also have a Tribute S-500 which does not have this problem.

2. The guitar will not intonate completely. The saddles can not go back far enough on the bridge to get completely accurate intonation. Most of the strings are close enough but the D and low E strings are sharp at the 12th fret.

Is this guitar defective or is there something that I'm missing in the setup? Does the neck need to be shimmed?

Thanks for any advice.

[GeorgeB]

Shimming would certainly fix it but you might get away with tigtening the truss rod to get a flatter neck. The higher action would concentrate on the upper frets.

On my S-500 I had to remove the spring at E string saddle and shorten the one for the A saddle to achieve proper intonation range.

[Craig]

I bought a new Tribute Legacy about a month or two ago. I like the guitar but I noticed a couple disconcerting things.

1. I set the tremolo up to be 4/64 from the body per the setup guide in one of the forum posts. When I have it set this way, the action is slightly high even when the saddles are bottomed out on the tremolo plate. I could lower the tremolo but I do like the floating aspect of the 4/64 setup. I also have a Tribute S-500 which does not have this problem.

2. The guitar will not intonate completely. The saddles can not go back far enough on the bridge to get completely accurate intonation. Most of the strings are close enough but the D and low E strings are sharp at the 12th fret.

Is this guitar defective or is there something that I'm missing in the setup? Does the neck need to be shimmed?

Thanks for any advice.

Make sure you are using the current setup post: Current Factory setup for G&L guitars with vibrato bridges because the bridge plate
should be 2/16" above the body not 4/64". If you are not able to get it setup per that post, take it to the selling dealer and
have them do a setup to your preference setup. How was the setup when you first received the guitar? Did you change string
gauge before attempting this setup? You should not need to shim the neck nor modify the saddle springs to get it to the factory setup.

Hope this helps.

[pvan]

Shimming would certainly fix it but you might get away with tigtening the truss rod to get a flatter neck. The higher action would concentrate on the upper frets.

On my S-500 I had to remove the spring at E string saddle and shorten the one for the A saddle to achieve proper intonation range.

Thanks for the response. Is that a Tribute or American S-500? The intonation issue bugs me as I've encountered that on other non-G&L guitars as well. I would think it would be easy enough to extend the bridge a tad and use slightly longer saddles so there is ample adjustment available.

[pvan]

Make sure you are using the current setup post: Current Factory setup for G&L guitars with vibrato bridges because the bridge plate
should be 2/16" above the body not 4/64". If you are not able to get it setup per that post, take it to the selling dealer and
have them do a setup to your preference setup. How was the setup when you first received the guitar? Did you change string
gauge before attempting this setup? You should not need to shim the neck nor modify the saddle springs to get it to the factory setup.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Craig. I actually was mistaken, 4/64 was the string height in the post and I confused the two. That page was the one I went by. Currently the bridge height is a tad under 2/16" because I wanted to try and get a little lower action. Currently the low E string action is just over 2/32" (4/64") at the 14th fret and the saddle is bottomed out. If I recall when I got the guitar, the bridge was lower and I raised it based on the setup specs on the page you cited. The first setup I did was with the same string gauge (I believe) which was .010's. Regarding the intonation, all the saddles except A and D are all the way back to where the springs are almost or completely collapsed. Typically you see that step pattern (high E up a bit, B back a little, G a little more etc.) on the saddles when intonated correctly, but that's not possible. The neck relief is good with just a slight amount so I don't think that is a factor.

I didn't have any issues with my S-500 which was one of the newer mahogany body models. That guitar setup perfectly. I don't know what year the Legacy is, I think it may be a year or more older but I'm not sure. I don't know how long it was sitting in the store where I bought it from. I was planning on taking it back to the store this week to get a Plek and setup so hopefully they can determine what the issue is.

Phil

[Boogie Bill]

Yeah, something is not right there. Are you SURE this is a NEW guitar? It seems like somebody's messed with it. The saddles should not be bottomed out on the bridge plate. You've got to have the correct relationship between the height of the bridge plate and the height of the saddles, or you'll have all kinds of issues with the vibrato--string breakage, incorrect intonation, tuning instability, buzzing, etc.

The string length seems off as you indicate. There should be a bit of travel; though sometimes springs may need to be cut to make room. But typically this is done for economy's sake, rather than neck removal and shimming. And Craig is correct--it should not need to be shimmed. But things happen...

Make sure you take the spec page with you and tell the tech to follow it exactly. If he won't do it, or tells you he has a "better way"--find somebody else. Most techs do not know how to set up a G&L bridge, and oftentimes they just make everything worse. And make sure he uses a radius gauge to set the correct curvature of the saddles--it's one of the keys to great playability.

I would hold off on the Plek, at least until you have the bridge geometry correct. Doing it now would be a waste of money, IMO.

Get the bridge right first and the correct neck angle and relief, and a properly cut nut--and then go from there.

Good luck!

Bill

[pvan]

Thanks for the advice Bill. I can say that I bought it as a new guitar from a shop that sold it as a new guitar. I believe it is, it just appears to be a lemon as far as assembly is concerned. Based on your comments I think I'll ask if they can get it setup properly and if so, then do the Plek. They did a great job with my S-500 so I believe they should be competent with the G&L bridge, however I did have it setup to spec when I brought it in. It was the first time I took a guitar for a setup and fret work and was satisfied with the result. Good idea on providing the spec page as well, I will do that.

Cheers!

Phil

[pvan]

Make sure you are using the current setup post: Current Factory setup for G&L guitars with vibrato bridges because the bridge plate
should be 2/16" above the body not 4/64". If you are not able to get it setup per that post, take it to the selling dealer and
have them do a setup to your preference setup. How was the setup when you first received the guitar? Did you change string
gauge before attempting this setup? You should not need to shim the neck nor modify the saddle springs to get it to the factory setup.

Hope this helps.

Craig, if the dealer can't get it to the factory setup, what do you suggest. I took it to the dealer today and they looked at it and suggested lowering the bridge to get the action lower but which would not be factory spec for the bridge height. For the intonation, they thought it was close but admittedly a couple cents out on some strings with no adjustment available. This was just an initial inspection and they will do an official setup but I was getting the impression they thought it was "close enough". I would expect that there should be ample adjustment for string height with the factory spec bridge height and ample saddle adustment for perfect intonation. My S-500 doesn't have these issues.

Thanks,

Phil

[Fumble fingers]

I have a couple DF's I lowered the bridge on to get real low action and don't see any problems , but I don't do any major pull ups with it either , so you might have to watch that so you don't dig into the body

[Craig]

Make sure you are using the current setup post: Current Factory setup for G&L guitars with vibrato bridges because the bridge plate
should be 2/16" above the body not 4/64". If you are not able to get it setup per that post, take it to the selling dealer and
have them do a setup to your preference setup. How was the setup when you first received the guitar? Did you change string
gauge before attempting this setup? You should not need to shim the neck nor modify the saddle springs to get it to the factory setup.

Hope this helps.

Craig, if the dealer can't get it to the factory setup, what do you suggest. I took it to the dealer today and they looked at it and suggested lowering the bridge to get the action lower but which would not be factory spec for the bridge height. For the intonation, they thought it was close but admittedly a couple cents out on some strings with no adjustment available. This was just an initial inspection and they will do an official setup but I was getting the impression they thought it was "close enough". I would expect that there should be ample adjustment for string height with the factory spec bridge height and ample saddle adustment for perfect intonation. My S-500 doesn't have these issues.

Thanks,

Phil

If the dealer can get it dialed in by lowering the bridge a bit and you like the results, then go for it that way. If not, ask them
to contact G&L customer service about this issue. The factory may be able to guide the dealer's tech in dialing it to the factory spec,
or do an exchange under the warranty.

Let us know how this works out for you.

[pvan]

Thanks Craig, will do.

[Boogie Bill]

Getting it back to factory specs doesn't mean that is the end of the set-up, but it is THE place to START.

Once you have it back to factory specs, then SLIGHT adjustments can be made to the truss rod, individual saddles, string length, overall bridge plate height adjustment, and the vibrato spring tension to fit your individual playing style--without messing up the ENTIRE system and causing poor performance of the vibrato system. It is an INTEGRATED SYSTEM, and all the little parts have to work together.

If one part of that system gets too far off spec--you WILL have problems, as I indicated in an earlier post.

But once you have it in spec, if you need to slightly adjust the overall height--you can make a modest adjustment up or down by simply adjusting the bridge pivot posts. Need a slightly different contour to the saddles? Like maybe you'll want the B and G strings a little bit higher for easier bending? No problem.

One Legacy that I bought used was advertised as having a "Pro set-up". It was a beautiful guitar with a few custom features. As soon as I looked at it, I knew what the problem was. It would not play in tune and had all kinds of buzzes; the playability was horrible, the truss rod was mis-adjusted, and the string tension was through the roof. It was a simple matter of the bridge being so far out of spec that it was unplayable. I brought up how terrible the guitar played, and bought it for less than $400. I did have some qualms about the neck and the truss rod, but figured it was worth the risk. In talking to the guy after I handed him the cash, he kinda laughed and said that he felt bad about taking my money. He'd bought it used, and had never really played it because it played so bad, and didn't sound very good, and that's why he was selling it. I didn't bother with telling him how bad the setup was, and that it was all fixable.

I raced home and took off the dead strings and gave it a much needed bath and polish. The new strings went on and then I went to work on the action, following the spec sheet. Got the truss rod adjusted, got the bridge set up right and the pickup height set--probably spent two hours on it total with the clean up. Fortunately, it didn't need any fret levelling or nut work, so it was good to go.

And the guitar just came alive! All of my G&Ls are great guitars, but this one is something special. It plays great, it sounds terrific. This is by far the most RESONANT Legacy I own--it really does feel alive in my hands. Couldn't be more pleased.

And the mean part of me would love to take it back to the guy I bought it from and show him what he missed out on--all because of a bad set-up that somebody did on this guitar. And I got it for a steal of a price.

So a set up on a guitar really means a lot. It can be a make or break situation. I've played really cheap and crappy imports, both electrics and acoustics--that with a $60 set-up--played like a Custom Shop guitar. And in variably, a well set-up guitar simply sounds better.

So my advice: have them do the set up, and have them do it right. "Close enough" isn't good enough for me, and it shouldn't be for you and your new guitar.

Good luck.

Bill

[pvan]

I have a couple DF's I lowered the bridge on to get real low action and don't see any problems , but I don't do any major pull ups with it either , so you might have to watch that so you don't dig into the body

I don't think lowering the bridge would be that big of a deal except I do like to pull up on the bar quite a bit.

[pvan]

Getting it back to factory specs doesn't mean that is the end of the set-up, but it is THE place to START.

So my advice: have them do the set up, and have them do it right. "Close enough" isn't good enough for me, and it shouldn't be for you and your new guitar.

Good luck.

Bill

Good stuff, and I agree. factory spec should be a prerequisite, then adjust from there. Your comment about "Close enough isn't good enough" is true. I wouldn't be happy if it was close but not quite there without any adjustment available. I was also thinking that if I wanted to sell the guitar at some point, then I would have to take a hit because I would tell whoever was buying about any issues with the guitar.

Thanks for the comments, we'll see what happens.

Phil

[darwinohm]

Phil, I am late to this discussion and just read through it and can see where the problem may be. First of all I suspect that this guitar will setup to factory spec and everything may well fall within spec including the saddles heights. I am sensing that you may prefer lower action than 2/32 or .0625. I do myself and like my high E at .050 and low E between .050 and 060 depending on how level the frets are.

If you bridge is set up to factory spec and that is exactly where I would put it, the neck relief at .005 to .008 , you are in a good position to deal with this issue. You need to place a shim at the base of the neck pocket, I would start with a .015 brass shim and see where you end up for action. By doing this you will be able to raise the saddles to where they should be and the end result will be effectively lengthening the strings and your intonation will now be fixable and you saddles will not be bottomed and all the way back. This is not an uncommon issue with guitars that are set up for very low action. I am guessing that when you get everything set properly with low action, you may discover some slight fret buzzing as it is a Tribute series. If you don't experience some fret buzz you are in good shape. If you really want low action, get it set to where you want it by shimming the neck and correct saddle height and if you like it at that point but experience some fret buzz, have a competent technician level the frets and you will probably be a very happy Tribute owner. The necks are not plecked may need some dressing for very low action. I have done this to a couple of Tributes and they are exceptional players. Hope this helps as it is will correct the neck/ body angle for low action. What happened to the micro tilt?????????? -- Darwin

[Fumble fingers]

that's some good point Darwin !! , I was also thinking the saddles being lowered would mess with intonation too but I'm too much of a rookie I didn't want to post it if it wasn't right

[pvan]

Phil, I am late to this discussion and just read through it and can see where the problem may be. First of all I suspect that this guitar will setup to factory spec and everything may well fall within spec including the saddles heights. I am sensing that you may prefer lower action than 2/32 or .0625. I do myself and like my high E at .050 and low E between .050 and 060 depending on how level the frets are.

If you bridge is set up to factory spec and that is exactly where I would put it, the neck relief at .005 to .008 , you are in a good position to deal with this issue. You need to place a shim at the base of the neck pocket, I would start with a .015 brass shim and see where you end up for action. By doing this you will be able to raise the saddles to where they should be and the end result will be effectively lengthening the strings and your intonation will now be fixable and you saddles will not be bottomed and all the way back. This is not an uncommon issue with guitars that are set up for very low action. I am guessing that when you get everything set properly with low action, you may discover some slight fret buzzing as it is a Tribute series. If you don't experience some fret buzz you are in good shape. If you really want low action, get it set to where you want it by shimming the neck and correct saddle height and if you like it at that point but experience some fret buzz, have a competent technician level the frets and you will probably be a very happy Tribute owner. The necks are not plecked may need some dressing for very low action. I have done this to a couple of Tributes and they are exceptional players. Hope this helps as it is will correct the neck/ body angle for low action. What happened to the micro tilt?????????? -- Darwin

Thanks for the great info Darwin. The guitar is already in the shop so we'll see what the outcome is. They may wind up doing exactly what you prescribed.

Phil

[savofenno]

I just got a new Tribute Legacy today. How do i get trem arm stay in? I don`t want to use more brute force than with my Jazzmasters and Jaguar.

[Craig]

I just got a new Tribute Legacy today. How do i get trem arm stay in? I don`t want to use more brute force than with my Jazzmasters and Jaguar.

See my reply to your other post: http://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic ... 976#p81976.