G&L S-500 80's -- Info needed
Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:31 pm
I'm planning on selling my 80's G&L S-500. My question is regarding the date of it. The neck is stamped 1985, the body 1988, and the serial number falls under 1987. I know Fender/G&L never made the body and neck at the same time, but I'm wondering if 1985-1988 is too long of a stretch for the body and neck to both be "original." Also, there is what looks to me a filled in strappeg hole on the lower bout of the guitar. The guitar's finish is very nice and if I didn't know better I'd say it was original, so I'm curious if G&L used a pin router in that area, or if in fact somebody did have a peg there, later filled in, then refinished. I want to know these things so I can be as honest as possible when I list the guitar. I've included a couple pics:
Re: G&L S-500 80's -- Info needed
Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:39 pm
H ryesky,
All date stamps look legit in terms of the kind of stamping machines used, with their inherit spacing and off-center-ness. I also have at least one guitar in my collection where date stamps in pocket and neck differ by 2 years, and that one is mid 90's. Your neck heel does have 2 holes that are a bit of a mystery to me. The filled hole in the treble horn might be because it once belonged to a southpaw.
Hope this helps,
- Jos
All date stamps look legit in terms of the kind of stamping machines used, with their inherit spacing and off-center-ness. I also have at least one guitar in my collection where date stamps in pocket and neck differ by 2 years, and that one is mid 90's. Your neck heel does have 2 holes that are a bit of a mystery to me. The filled hole in the treble horn might be because it once belonged to a southpaw.
Hope this helps,
- Jos
Re: G&L S-500 80's -- Info needed
Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:33 pm
My biggest neck-body difference is only seven months, but I'm sure larger differences could have happened. A couple of thoughts I have on this are:
1. At some point in the mid-80s the S-500 headstock changed. The early ones had an oversized headstock, and I believe were the first G&Ls to feature the "hook". Sometime near the middle of the decade the headstock went down to normal size. This may give a clue about your guitar's age. Can you post a photo or two of the headstock?
2. I doubt the date stamps were always 100% correct. For example, my Lynx was stamped both "AUG 12 1986" and "SEP 12 1986" on the neck. I've heard of other guitars having similar errors that were corrected with a second stamp. It could be that yours had the year stamp off, and wasn't caught or corrected.
3. The body could have been a factory replacement. The second S-500 style came out in 1988, but the first style could still be special ordered through 1991 (according to Greg's website). The neck could have started life on a different body in '85, and then been matched to a new one at the factory three years later.
I agree with Jos that the mark on the lower bout may have been from a left-handed mod. It looks like it was fixed very nicely. This guitar looks pretty sweet!
Ken
1. At some point in the mid-80s the S-500 headstock changed. The early ones had an oversized headstock, and I believe were the first G&Ls to feature the "hook". Sometime near the middle of the decade the headstock went down to normal size. This may give a clue about your guitar's age. Can you post a photo or two of the headstock?
2. I doubt the date stamps were always 100% correct. For example, my Lynx was stamped both "AUG 12 1986" and "SEP 12 1986" on the neck. I've heard of other guitars having similar errors that were corrected with a second stamp. It could be that yours had the year stamp off, and wasn't caught or corrected.
3. The body could have been a factory replacement. The second S-500 style came out in 1988, but the first style could still be special ordered through 1991 (according to Greg's website). The neck could have started life on a different body in '85, and then been matched to a new one at the factory three years later.
I agree with Jos that the mark on the lower bout may have been from a left-handed mod. It looks like it was fixed very nicely. This guitar looks pretty sweet!
Ken
Re: G&L S-500 80's -- Info needed
Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:51 pm
Thanks, guys.
The headstock is the oversized version. It's a great guitar, the neck, however, is too thin for me. I've been a fan of g&l for quite awhile and while this guitar is nice, the ultra thin neck on it is just not for me. My newer Legacy is my workhorse electric.
The headstock is the oversized version. It's a great guitar, the neck, however, is too thin for me. I've been a fan of g&l for quite awhile and while this guitar is nice, the ultra thin neck on it is just not for me. My newer Legacy is my workhorse electric.
Re: G&L S-500 80's -- Info needed
Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:43 am
It seems unlikely to me that the old style large headstock would have left the factory on a production guitar after the change had been made to the modern, smaller headstock. Anything's possible with old G&Ls though. It could also have been an employee's personal guitar built with a leftover neck, or a request from a customer for one that had the earlier cosmetics.
One of my '86 ASATs came to me with a black crinkle pickguard, which didn't start showing up on other ASATs for another year and a half. I assumed it had been modded by a previous owner to have late-80s cosmetics, but a couple of weeks ago another GbL regular found an '86 Broadcaster with a black crinkle pickguard. They must have had a couple of prototype pickguards that went out the door on these two production guitars. This kind of quirkiness is to be expected with early G&Ls, and for some of us is part of the attraction to them. Like the old G&L ad said, "mass production is for soda pop and automobiles"!
IMO, you could accurately describe this as a very clean first-style S-500 from the mid-80s. Given all of the variables you find with Leo-era G&Ls, I personally don't think it's necessary to nail down a specific year as long as the guitar honestly appears to be original to the way it left the factory. The photos you posted seem to back that up.
Ken
One of my '86 ASATs came to me with a black crinkle pickguard, which didn't start showing up on other ASATs for another year and a half. I assumed it had been modded by a previous owner to have late-80s cosmetics, but a couple of weeks ago another GbL regular found an '86 Broadcaster with a black crinkle pickguard. They must have had a couple of prototype pickguards that went out the door on these two production guitars. This kind of quirkiness is to be expected with early G&Ls, and for some of us is part of the attraction to them. Like the old G&L ad said, "mass production is for soda pop and automobiles"!
IMO, you could accurately describe this as a very clean first-style S-500 from the mid-80s. Given all of the variables you find with Leo-era G&Ls, I personally don't think it's necessary to nail down a specific year as long as the guitar honestly appears to be original to the way it left the factory. The photos you posted seem to back that up.
Ken