1980 F-100 phase switch query

The phase switch on my F-100 only puts the p/u's out of phase when the p/u selector toggle switch is set in the middle position. It works for both single coil and twin coil modes. However, the manual says the phase switch should automatically sets the p/u's out of phase regardless what position the selector switch is in. (This is how the phase switch works on earlier musicman sabre guitar). Everything else seems to work fine. The treble pot stays on full when the bridge pick up is selected.

The electrics look very clean with no obvious sign of anyone altering the set up. I have checked the electrics against the wiring scheme in the gallery and there are some subtle differences but nothing to explain this. Does anyone else own a F100 of similar age dated (August 1980) if so please let me know if it works as the manual or differs like mine. Or if anyone can throw some light on thisI would grateful.

In order for the pickups to be "out of phase", they both need to be selected (middle position).......unless I am missing something..........to be "out of phase" the pickups must be out of phase in relation to each other.


Someone correct me if I am wrong.




http://music.stackexchange.com/question ... se-pickups

Scroll down towards the bottom of this page: http://www.1728.org/guitar.htm to phase reversal switch.

Although unusual, it is possible to wire a humbucker out of phase with itself. I don't believe this is what your switch is intended to accomplish.

My F-100 is from Sept/Oct '80. It's not close at hand at the moment, but I will try to find time to check it tomorrow night.

Ken

The phase switch on my F-100 only puts the p/u's out of phase when the p/u selector toggle switch is set in the middle position. It works for both single coil and twin coil modes. However, the manual says the phase switch should automatically sets the p/u's out of phase regardless what position the selector switch is in.

Mine is from Jan. 1981. It works how it should, in OOP-Mode the pickup selector has no function, both pu's are always on. First I thought it's a flaw, but then I realized OOP is not inside one pickup but both pickups are switched OOP and nothing else would make any sense.

The treble pot stays on full when the bridge pick up is selected.

I think, that's also unusual. At mine both tone controls do work in all pickup selector positions.

<---- click!

The neck pickup was broken, so it got rewound and both got a 4 wire cable, because I thought I would change that out of phase to work on a pickup alone, but in the end I wired it as it was before.

Last edited by Miles Smiles on Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thanks for the feedback
To reiterate, the oop(out of phase) switch on my guitar activates both p/u's in both single and double coil tap modes but only works when the p/u selector switch is set in the middle. So moving the selector switch to either bridge or neck position cancels the oop function. Whilst it is a neat trick it is definitely not what the manual says should be happening. The oop, according to the manual, should override the p/u selector switch and automatically activate both p/u's. Like I said before the wiring appears very clean with signs of it ever being altered so I was hoping this is a subtle modification or a wiring error done when the guitar was first built.

Apologies, I should have said in the response above there are no signs of wiring being altered

So moving the selector switch to either bridge or neck position cancels the oop function. Whilst it is a neat trick it is definitely not what the manual says should be happening.

Can't say why this should be a neat trick, because just using the OOP-switch, would do the same and by switching it on, you never have to think about, in which position the pu selector is. I would say, that's a neat trick.

So maybe you could point out the differences in your wiring and just correct it. If you're sure, the wiring was never changed since it left the factory, then it must be a mistake. Also the thing with the treble pot not working for the brigde pickup. I ever hated that behaviour on a regular Stratocaster too.

As I remember the diagrams in the gallery to be hard to read for the faint drawings, you may use the picture I've posted. There are some more in my gallery, on page 5 of that album: http://i.wuell.net/gallery/view_album.p ... 100&page=5

Thanks for the feedback
To reiterate, the oop(out of phase) switch on my guitar activates both p/u's in both single and double coil tap modes but only works when the p/u selector switch is set in the middle. So moving the selector switch to either bridge or neck position cancels the oop function. Whilst it is a neat trick it is definitely not what the manual says should be happening. The oop, according to the manual, should override the p/u selector switch and automatically activate both p/u's. Like I said before the wiring appears very clean with signs of it ever being altered so I was hoping this is a subtle modification or a wiring error done when the guitar was first built.

Sorry, I misunderstood your original post. I didn't realize the OOP switch was supposed to overide the pickup selector.

Emily Litella says "Never Mind"

I think I will stick with what I've got rather than messing with wiring and risk screwing it up. After all the guitar does still produce all the sounds it is supposed to. Whether it was a deliberate alteration or a factory mistake is still a bit of mystery but I think having the "OOP" work only on the mid pu selector position is no bad thing. This allows you to quickly toggle from "IP" bridge or neck to "OOP"(which requires pu's in play active anyway). rather than trying to find the phase switch which is set further back. Once again thanks to all who posted replies.

I think your guitar is mis-wired, almost certainly after sale. I'm concerned that the tone controls are also not wired correctly. I would definitely put the guitar back to stock wiring, as these controls are tremendously versatile, once you figure out how to use them.

Bill

Bill
I am also coming round the fact it has be rewired wrongly. I will have another look at the actual wiring against wiring diagram and see if I can spot what is wrong.

I have gone through the wiring diagram again checking against the actual wiring and eventually found a discrepancy.

According to the wiring diagram the white wire for the bridge(lead) pu connects to the toggle switch which it shares with a yellow wire going to split coil switch. This shared wire has however been wired to the neck(rhythm) side of the toggle switch. I am not sure how clear the attached photo showing close up of the toggle switch is but the bridge connection is to the top and the neck connection at the bottom. Hopefully you can make out just how clean the soldered joints are: this makes me think it was more likely a factory mistake. I have now moved the wire over and the electrics are working perfectly - just like what the manual says!

Thanks to all for sticking with me on this one , I was fooling myself pretending it was fine when it clearly wasn't.

Well done ,
kudos also for suspecting things could be wonky...a trait I'd love to see more of in this world.

Rock and Roll !!
elwood