Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:21 am
Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:18 am
Chris H wrote:Hi All,
I must admit I am not particularly savvy when it comes to pickups & wiring, so forgive me if this topic has been covered elsewhere. Feel free to point me towards resources!
I am curious about the pickups on the original ASAT (what would be called the ASAT Special today). These are the jumbo MFD single pickups of course.
What is the difference between the neck and bridge pickup? And are they wired in parallel or series?
Now, on the ASAT S-3, with an added middle pickup and 5-way switch, which pickup would you select to go in the middle, and how would that be wired?
If I look at G&L's description of this pickup on their shop, I must say I get a bit confused... what on earth is the "other" they are referring to?
From the shop page:
G&L Magnetic Field Design pickup as used on all ASAT Special, SC-2 and ASAT S-3 (neck and middle position only) guitars. Available in Black, White and Crème.
For ASAT Classic Custom (neck position), ASAT S-3 (bridge position), please see Jumbo MFD single coil (other).
Maybe it's easier if I just explain why I'm asking these questions... I am reverting a 1987 ASAT with an S-3 mod back to its original 2-pickup configuration, and I want to (a) make sure the right pickups are going back into the neck & bridge positions, and (b) I'd like to know exactly what that middle pickup is.
Lastly, does anyone know what pickup would have been used in an original 1982 SC-1? Bridge?
Many thanks in advance for your help!
Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:34 pm
Chris H wrote:
If I look at G&L's description of this pickup on their shop, I must say I get a bit confused... what on earth is the "other" they are referring to?
From the shop page:
G&L Magnetic Field Design pickup as used on all ASAT Special, SC-2 and ASAT S-3 (neck and middle position only) guitars. Available in Black, White and Crème.
For ASAT Classic Custom (neck position), ASAT S-3 (bridge position), please see Jumbo MFD single coil (other).
Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:58 am
Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:18 am
Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:07 pm
Tooslowhand wrote:Reverse Wind / Reverse Polarity is used in the bridge position of single coil pickup guitars to provide humbucking functionality when the bridge and front pickups are used together. The SC-2 bridge pickup has higher output than the "standard" ASAT Special jumbo MFD.
Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:35 pm
Chris H wrote:Hi Craig,
Thanks a lot for this info, though in this case more info = more questions!
Like I said, I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to pickups & wiring, so bear with me on some clarification...
So the key difference of the MFD Jumbo "other" pickups from "standard" is it's reverse winding/reverse polarity? And within "standard" the only difference between neck & bridge pickups is a slightly different size to accommodate angled or straight? What size is the "other" pickup, seeing that it was apparently used in both neck & bridge positions?
And the SC-2 had an "other" (RW/RP) bridge pickup and a "standard" neck pickup, making it different from the ASAT Special, which has a "standard" neck & bridge pickup?
I would have (naively) assumed that the SC-2 and an ASAT Special had the same pickups and wiring...
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly to my situation, what about the S-3? This is not addressed in your error amendment. I've assumed that S-3 was wired like a Strat, with the middle pickup RW/RP, which in this case would require the "other" pickup... or is this an incorrect assumption?
Since I have an original ASAT with an aftermarket middle-pickup mod (which was possibly done by Gabe Dellevigne at ESI back in the day), I am still a bit unclear about which pickups I have and in what position they are.
Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:17 pm
Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:55 pm
Chris H wrote:Ok, so the S-3 is wired with a RW/RP middle pickup, glad to have that clarified.
But why would the bridge and neck pickup need to be wound differently for an S-3? Couldn't you just use the original jumbo MFDs from the 1987 ASAT and pop a new "other"/RW/RP in the middle? What am I missing?
If I do check the values on my pickups, should I expect to see the following from unmodified pickups?:
Pre-1992 = 4.4K - 4.9K
Middle RW/RP = 7.25-7.3K (is this the "other" pickup??)
I did indeed email Gabe with questions about this mod and will update here with any pertinent info.
Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:25 pm
Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:24 pm
Chris H wrote:This is my last thought before I sign off for the day...
It looks like the "other" pickups used to be offered in both neck and bridge sizes (see here), therefore with an existing ASAT, it would have been an easy task to move the standard neck pickup into the middle position, add an "other neck" in the neck position, and leave the standard bridge pickup alone.
That should preserve all phase relationships and hum-cancelling, while only requiring one new pickup. With that in mind, it is VERY perplexing why they would designate the "other bridge" pickup for an S-3.
Or... am I missing something again?
I am working on the assumption that (a) my guitar's mods were done in a time when one could easily order the "other" pickups, (b) that the "other" pickups were indeed offered in both bridge & neck sizes, and (c) "standard neck" means RW/RP relative to "other neck" and "standard bridge" means RW/RP relative to "other bridge".
I'll return to this tomorrow, but thanks for all the input and help. I'm learning, albeit slowly...
Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:28 am
Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:48 pm
Chris H wrote:I appreciate all of the info and input. Obviously my PUP knowledge is in the "just enough to be dangerous" category, but it's making more sense now. I got hung up on G&L's terminology ("standard" vs "other") and confounded that with having something to do with winding and polarity.
So, if you could please confirm that I have the following facts correct, I think I've got it mostly sorted now (hopefully!)...
[I've chosen to say normal wind & polarity, so as to avoid confusion with G&L's "standard" set of pickups.]
The "standard" MFD jumbo pickups (available for sale today) consist of the following:
- A normal wind & normal polarity neck pickup
- A reverse wind & reverse polarity bridge pickup
- Such a set is found in the ASAT Special
And the "other" MFD jumbo pickups (which used to be available online) refer to the following:
- An overwound normal wind & normal polarity neck pickup (as used on the ASAT Classic Custom)
- An overwound reverse wind & reverse polarity bridge pickup (as used on the modern SC-2 (8/2008 and later))
Where I seem to have gone astray is my incorrect assumption that ""standard neck" means reversed relative to "other neck", and "standard bridge" means reversed relative to "other bridge"". I think this was my big misunderstanding.
In other words, as far as G&L's "standard" and "other" sets are concerned, a neck pickup is always normal wind & normal polarity and a bridge pickup is always reverse wind & reverse polarity. "Other" in this case refers to overwinding (or higher output).
Lastly, when talking about the S-3 or the Trinity Special Edition guitars, these used special bridge pickups (normal wind/polarity) and special middle pickups (RW/RP), which have nothing to do with G&L's "standard" and "other" MFD jumbos.
Have I got it sorted out??
So... if only the modern SC-2s used the overwound "other" bridge pickup, does that mean that the early 80's version have the exact same pickups as the original ASAT?