Old school fret wire

Can anyone tell me what fret wire was standard in the early days on G-200 and similar guitars? Like "80 and '81 F-100s too? I see that there was such a thing as 'Medium Wide" but at some point that changed to "Medium Jumbo".

Was it just Dunlap 6100 or something else? And, isothere a dimension and silver content? I believe they are something like 16 - 18% silver?

Thanks,

Tom

Can anyone tell me what fret wire was standard in the early days on G-200 and similar guitars? Like "80 and '81 F-100s too? I see that there was such a thing as 'Medium Wide" but at some point that changed to "Medium Jumbo".

Was it just Dunlap 6100 or something else? And, isothere a dimension and silver content? I believe they are something like 16 - 18% silver?

Thanks,

Tom

The original frets were referred to as "Low Wide". A quick search finds this post: Re: G&L Frets?.

So what model would be considered the Low/wide frets if they switched from that to Dunlap 6100's? Or what would be the full dimensions or equivalent Dunlap or Jescar?

And can someone else answer my question. With real information and not just a "quick search" that doesn't really answer the question. I did enough quick search on fret wires and didn't even come up with this link. I have a very valuable guitar that I want re-fretted and want to make sure I get the right frets, not just a hand off with information that does not fill the bill.

Thanks,

Tom

hmmmmmmm, I might be out of place here, but sometimes Tom, you come over a bit rude. How about you pull a fret, take it to a shop for identification and then tell all of us the answer,,,, sounds logical or is it just too hard?

Tom,

I am no expert on these things but I believe the frets were wide and low Dunlap 6100's. .110 x .055

What guitar are you refretting?

take care,

y2kc

Tom , I had my local G&L dealer refret my Bcaster by Mark Kaiser , he measured my frets width and picked out some medium jumbo's similar material of the original that could be filed back down to low/wides if ever you want too .... Mark loved my Bcaster and was so gentle taking the original frets out and saving them , I still have the original frets and not a bend or tweak in any of them .... I'll look and see if I have the receipt in the case as it had the fret wire brand and number on it , not much help at the moment but you should be able to do what you want

http://www.fretrepairbymarkkaiser.com/

hmmmmmmm, I might be out of place here, but sometimes Tom, you come over a bit rude. How about you pull a fret, take it to a shop for identification and then tell all of us the answer,,,, sounds logical or is it just too hard?

Geoff, Thankyou for your candid comment and yes, I can sometimes come across as a bit of dick, I will be the first to admit that. Thing is, I usually do try as much as I can to find answers before I ask them here because I am fairly sure the answer is somewhere. It's just that I have trouble with the search function and how it works. You would think that searching for "G-200 fret wire" would bring a flood of hits. Just the words "fret wire" should provide a bumper crop of information. So consider that by the time I ask a question here I have already looked as hard as I can for the answer. In such a case, even a post that gets as close to "Medium Wide" frets means nothing to me. I am looking for more specific info like a model or part number.

What I am trying to do is have a G-200 re-fretted and first off, there is no way I am going to remove a fret myself at this point. Second, I would like this job to be done by someone that really knows what he is doing but my choice so far has done a lot of this work but is not as familiar with G&Ls to know what fret wire was used 30 some odd years ago. And lastly, if possible, I would like to use the same wire that was used back then for authenticity.

So, I am really not being rude, I just thought I asked a pretty specific question and the answer I got back was vernon-specific and really of little value. Maybe I can go further and just ask what a "medium Wide" fret is. See what I mean?

As far as the other responses from Y2 and Fumble Fingers, this is the type thing I was looking for and I thank you guys for your contribution. If you want to call me rude, consider the larger picture. I have no beef with Craig and he has been of tremendous help to me in the past and I hope the future. It's just that sometimes people misconstrue the intent of the question and jump to the simplest answer at hand. I am not writing a book, I am trying to restore a wonderful instrument and need hard knowledge above all else.

So, back off (he said with all peace and love)

Tom

I have connected with Gabe and will be posting the information he gave me, once I get the specifics on the G-200 fretwire which
he said he has but needs to look it up and hopes to get it to me later this week.

Stay tuned.

Craig,

Who is this Gabe you speak of and why doesn't he participate on this discussion forum? For now we will wait for him to contact you with the answer to this simple question.

Gabe?, are you out there?

y2kc

Thanks Craig, much appreciated. I got this G-200 from a pawn shop and i's in over all pretty good shape. Front loaded controls and some honest wear. I started to try a standard setup but the frets have been played down to almost flat. So it really needs a fret job, actually I would love to have it PLEK'd but I don't know if there is one of those machines in the area.

Anyone know of A PLEK machine in the DC area? I would assume that if a place had a PLEK they would be pretty good at Re-fretting a neck. Either way, I need to use the correct wire if at all possible.

Also, does anyone sell specific parts like screws for the old black chrome saddle lock bridges? I think they are the same as the current hardware but I don't need to buy the entire bridge just to get the intonation screws and mounting screws. I also would like to replace the screws that hold the F-100 pickups to the guitar.

As far as Gabe, Casey, he used to post on here but someone mentioned that he is working on a book. I also thought that he is not in such good health these days but that is just speculation on my part.

Tom

Tom,

Congrats on finding a 200 in a pawn shop. Nice find!

My thoughts are that you have a keeper and need to find a guitar tech that has a good reputation in your area. Replacing the frets with identical frets, in my opinion, is not as important as choosing frets that will inspire you to play. Pleking your guitar will not be needed if you find a qualified tech.

Could you post a photo of the frets in your 200?


Y2kc

I will post some pics of the neck a bit later.

What I need to talk about from another post (I havn't figured out how to post a link to a post so I will keep it here) is the wiring for this guitar. I had asked if anyone had a schematic but at least Jos was kind enough to post a picture of one of his G-200 control cavity. Here is one of those.



OK. So most of the wiring in my G-200 looks like this. The biggest difference is that there is a wire attached to the ground lug of the TRS connector. This makes some sense but the yellow wire in the picture and on my guitar is connected to the ring lug, not the tip as I would think it should. This connects both ring and sleeve together on mine and I would think that this would produce no sound at all or something very funky. When I remove the ground, it does not change the weirdness I am having with the switching and pickup configurations. Why does this work considering at the other end you have no connection through the tip which is what the amp is expecting to see. I'm no brain surgeon but why does this work?

Thanks,

Tom

OK, so here's the guitar, somewhat taken apart...



Here's some pics of the neck and frets.









And the headstock



And here is my wiring



So, the frets look pretty slim and as far as the wiring, Anybody see anything funky going on? How do you measure the caps to see if they are good?

Tom

As far as Gabe,...

Just super busy most the time, as far as I know.
Nice to see a G-200 gettin' some TLC

Tom,

Yes, you need new frets. If they were not pitted I would say just have them dressed but there is not enough there to work with. Take your time and fine a local guitar tech with a good reputation. It is worth a long drive to have this done well. During a fret replacement, often the fret board is worked on as well. Find a pro.
I good tech will also take into consideration the truss rods abilities and possibly have a suggestion for a fret profile. There would be nothing wrong with getting a slightly taller fret than originally used if this will make this guitar play better.

That is a great looking 200 you have there,

y2kc

I hear you Casey and that's exactly why I am looking for specific info and guidance from the experts. I appreciate your insight. You can see why I need a fret job though, right? I wasn't sure the wear would be apparent in a photo but it really is. There is also what looks like small round spots of mold or something in the Ebony that I will have sanded off if possible. Never seen quite anything like it. Alcohol didn't take it off so I need to do something about that too. You can see it pretty well in the third picture. Looks kind of like water marks.
I also really need a schematic or more info on the switches and caps because there is something funky going on with the electronics. It's difficult to explain exactly what's going on but sometimes I get no sound with certain combinations of switches and knobs. Sometimes the sound goes completely away with the lower tone knob turned all the way down. There's other things to and its a bit hard to tell by just tapping on the pickups and not strings.

So, we'll see, it's a good project for me to learn a bit more and even though it's a rare instrument, it's already got some good battle scars so I'm not afraid I'll ding it up on the bench like most of my other guitars.

Stay tuned for more and please, please, can someone post a schematic of the G-200. I know they are out there. The F-100 is close but it seems different enough that I can't go by it alone.

Oh hey, what do you think about that jack plug wiring?

Tom

Tom , Mark used Dunlop 6S 6100 Jumbo 18% Nickel Silver on my Broadcaster

Are those considered medium wide?

Oh lawd, the dreaded low-wide frets on those old G&L's, why would you replace them with the same!?


lol, but if you like them, it's them, the most accurate one you can get is the Dunlop "6130" frets. absolutely NOT 6100 Dunlop's (otherwise I wouldn't have had to pay for a re-fret on my '87 Invader). If you don't want Dunlop, the next closest is the Jescar FW37080 wire. The HEIGHT on the Dunlop and Jescar is the same, but the width is slightly wider on the dunlop - and was closer to my Invader's measurements.

I changed the wire on my Invader to Jescar's FW55090 wire to get more height and easier play. But if your looking for close to original, it's the 6130 ^

I think I will go with the 6130 or one of the Jescar medium wide like the FW50085 or the FW50090. I can't find the measurements for the Dunlop wire.

What tang measurements are stock for a G&L or should I leave that up to the Luthier once he removes the old frets?

Tom

I can measure the original frets and new frets tonight , I know they are very close in width just a lot higher , hard to post with my phone in the evenings and had company all last week , I did get the Broadcaster out last night and played it some

No hurry, thanks for the help. I would imagine that with the popular fret wires any Luthier worth his salt would have a variety of tang widths. If the guitar has never been re-fretted the slots should be the original width but I would also think that in the process of cleaning up the fret slots there might be a small amount of widening. Honestly, I have never played or owned a guitar that needed this work so I'm a total newbie with re-fretting. What I do know is enough to know that I don't know enough to do it myself. Maybe some day, but not on this guitar. It must be a daunting task for a Luthier to do this knowing what a rare guitar this is. Although I suppose if you have done a lot, it can't be that hard.

Ultimately, I'll probably go with the 55090 as that gives great playability and plenty of room for future work if needed. If that works out well for me I might look at some of my other guitars for re-fretting. My Nighthawk is getting kind of low and it could be the reason for a little fret buzz on a couple others.

Tom

I have connected with Gabe and will be posting the information he gave me, once I get the specifics on the G-200 fretwire which
he said he has but needs to look it up and hopes to get it to me later this week.

Stay tuned.

I have posted both emails from Gabe to this post in the G&L Technical Questions & Tips sub-forum of the G&L Knowledgebase Forum: G&L Frets?.

Hope this helps.

Thank you Craig, that is great information and the exact kind of thing I was looking for. Thus my remark earlier.

So, having read what Gabe had to say, and I wish he would post here more often, I will close out my part of this thread by saying I think I will follow his advice and go with the Jescar FW51108, maybe even in stainless. It looks a bit wide for my normal experience but I understand the concepts he discusses and they make sense.

Do you know if Gabe still does this kind of work? Can I mail him my neck and have him re-fret it for me? I only ask here because you (Craig) seem to have the connection to him and I would be very grateful to have someone who has done a dozen or more G-200s, but also understands the techniques necessary to do this right. The last thing most Luthiers want is to have a new customer (or un-aware Luthier) tell him how to re-fret a guitar. Know what I mean? If Gabe does not do this anymore I will have to see how understanding the new Luthier I have found is.

Thanks again and say hey and thanks to Gabe for me. While I am at it, you see how a simple seeming question can lead to fountain of knowledge? I love this place.

Tom

Thank you Craig, that is great information and the exact kind of thing I was looking for. Thus my remark earlier.

So, having read what Gabe had to say, and I wish he would post here more often, I will close out my part of this thread by saying I think I will follow his advice and go with the Jescar FW51108, maybe even in stainless. It looks a bit wide for my normal experience but I understand the concepts he discusses and they make sense.

Do you know if Gabe still does this kind of work? Can I mail him my neck and have him re-fret it for me? I only ask here because you (Craig) seem to have the connection to him and I would be very grateful to have someone who has done a dozen or more G-200s, but also understands the techniques necessary to do this right. The last thing most Luthiers want is to have a new customer (or un-aware Luthier) tell him how to re-fret a guitar. Know what I mean? If Gabe does not do this anymore I will have to see how understanding the new Luthier I have found is.

Thanks again and say hey and thanks to Gabe for me. While I am at it, you see how a simple seeming question can lead to fountain of knowledge? I love this place.

Tom

I have no idea if Gabe still does this kind of work, so you need to contact him directly. I contacted him via one of the email addresses listed in the Contact page on his ESI website.
Here's the link: http://electricstringedinstrument.com/esi/contact.html.

Hope this helps.

.110 x .055

Thanks Craig, much appreciated. I got this G-200 from a pawn shop and i's in over all pretty good shape. Front loaded controls and some honest wear. I started to try a standard setup but the frets have been played down to almost flat. So it really needs a fret job, actually I would love to have it PLEK'd but I don't know if there is one of those machines in the area.

Anyone know of A PLEK machine in the DC area? I would assume that if a place had a PLEK they would be pretty good at Re-fretting a neck. Either way, I need to use the correct wire if at all possible.

Also, does anyone sell specific parts like screws for the old black chrome saddle lock bridges? I think they are the same as the current hardware but I don't need to buy the entire bridge just to get the intonation screws and mounting screws. I also would like to replace the screws that hold the F-100 pickups to the guitar.

As far as Gabe, Casey, he used to post on here but someone mentioned that he is working on a book. I also thought that he is not in such good health these days but that is just speculation on my part.

Tom

According to http://www.plek.com/uploads/plek_worldm ... hp?lang=en there's a PLEK service available in Baltimore:
http://www.philtone.com/plek.html

The PLEK machine is not all, the operator must be skilled

But I f**** love the playability and the perfect setup of my PLEKed mexican Martin, and I wish I can PLEK my G&L Tribute S500 as soon as possible (I would gladly have payed an extra 150 bucks for it...) but I'm stuck in Thailand without the guitar and the Carvin of my life for I don't know how long ... (can't have it all )

In my own opinion it's really worth a trip to Baltimore.