improved tone with new bridge?

[cporro]

anyone have luck improving their tone with a new bridge? i have an 84' SC-2 with what i assume is a stock bridge.

the guitar has a bit of ring to it. in part because of the trem strings. i recently saw replacement springs that are coated with something (rubber) so they don't vibrate as much.

https://www.amazon.com/Floyd-Rose-Noise ... B07CL74NDB

but something else is causing a kind of "ring" to the guitar. i could only guess at that. low mass body or neck? trem vs mounted? low mass trem block. the ring is almost like a reverb effect in the mid range. My ASAT has the same pickups, same era but sounds very different. the obvious differences are the bridge and ASAT is noticeably heavier.

[Danley]

The trem block and saddles in that era were zinc; a few years ago there was a steel (I believe) block & saddle bridge released by G&L that was quickly discontinued - but the standard block/saddles are (again, someone correct me if I'm out of date) now brass. If you wanted you could try a newer bridge, or just saddles/block if they fit.

What you describe sounds exactly to me like the 'ring' that the trem springs make. Have you ruled them out? You could put some foam beneath them and conceivably not mess with the tuning of the guitar too much.

[Craig]

The trem block and saddles in that era were zinc; a few years ago there was a steel (I believe) block & saddle bridge released by G&L that was quickly discontinued - but the standard block/saddles are (again, someone correct me if I'm out of date) now brass. If you wanted you could try a newer bridge, or just saddles/block if they fit.

What you describe sounds exactly to me like the 'ring' that the trem springs make. Have you ruled them out? You could put some foam beneath them and conceivably not mess with the tuning of the guitar too much.

To support what Danley posted on the material of the saddles and trem block used by G&L over the years, see this post:
DFV saddle & trem block materials over the years.

To OP: in a previous post you mentioned that you ordered new saddles. Did you install them and if so, did that make any tone difference?

[cporro]

To OP: in a previous post you mentioned that you ordered new saddles. Did you install them and if so, did that make any tone difference?

i was doing that because of tuning issues. never recorded a before and after test. i can't imagine it would change a thing. new saddles and old saddles look very similar to me. prob about the same volume and mass.

the block on the other hand could significantly change the mass of the trem system. so might effect things. maybe have some audible difference in resonance? maybe? do they ring when they are out of the guitar? like if you tap on them? dunno. the mysteries of recording.

[Danley]

I've replaced saddles in other guitars and *think* I sense a difference between materials - though I haven't done anything scientific to prove it. The trem block on the other hand can have a pretty significant impact on tone, particularly on a floating bridge (less so on a Strat bridge set up flat to the body.) The block can have a possible damping effect on string vibration (since in effect whenever you pluck a string you're slightly 'fluttering' the trem) and so the mass matters.

That said - If your primary problem is overtones, I don't know if the block is the first thing I'd suspect. I've had various things 'ring' out on guitars - pickup screws/mounting springs, loose switches/hardware, vibrato springs (still my prime suspect in any case.) It's all a system, so maybe there are blocks that might transmit more resonance to the springs? But I have plenty of zinc trem blocks on guitars and don't have significant issues with 'ring' or overtones.

Working process of elimination - are you able to remove the plate assembly and pickups from the guitar, leaving only the bridge/strings, and see if there's still a ring? That would help you isolate it to the springs or something mounted to the pickguard. Again if it's the springs I'd just wrap them in fabric (lightly) or place light foam in the cavity. One last item - it's a distant possibility, but loose truss rods can also cause a ring.

[Miles Smiles]

Occasionally I pushed and pulled foam strips into the springs. If you take off the cover plate, your clothes might dampen it too.

On the other hand, it could be part of how a guitar with a spring vibrato unit should sound

If the sound of the springs goes through the pickups, which is probably not really the case, you have exactly the same thing a spring reverb would do.

[cporro]

Working process of elimination - are you able to remove the plate assembly and pickups from the guitar, leaving only the bridge/strings, and see if there's still a ring? That would help you isolate it to the springs or something mounted to the pickguard. Again if it's the springs I'd just wrap them in fabric (lightly) or place light foam in the cavity. One last item - it's a distant possibility, but loose truss rods can also cause a ring.

it's really not easy doing these comparison tests. warmoth has some good ones. i generally don't listen to peoples opinions on what they hear anymore. : ) i want to hear it myself. thus scouring the interwebs for well done tests. and i don't even trust my own ears unless i've done some semi-scientific recording and blind A/B-ing.

looking at anything that can vibrate is a good idea. i didn't pull the trem system and listen to the controls cavity. good idea. also did NOT consider the truss rod. for all i know it's totally slack.

but it could just be the light body and maple neck. ? if which case this guitar is what it is.

[Danley]

Just my opinion and experience - I've never known a solid body guitar to have enough resonance for the body to ring out in a fashion that creates a sound like an overtone one could mistake for spring reverb. I would not expect light body and maple neck to do that. If you have means to record the sound it would help provide guidance - as Miles mentioned do you hear it only unplugged?

[cporro]

If you have means to record the sound it would help provide guidance - as Miles mentioned do you hear it only unplugged?

i would totally do that. but pulled the nut at the moment. maybe after reinstall.

on another note i put a wood shim under the trem plate and characteristic sound still remained. thought if i coupled plate to body something might change. nope.

ok, i put the nut back in and then spent way too much time recording many tests on this guitar. the most significant was the trem springs. https://soundcloud.com/cporro/sc-2-tests-trem-muted-001


also did a test where i struck one note, quickly muted it, and recorded how the other open strings resonated. basically how the vibration was going from one string, across the bridge and nut, and into the open strings. was a little long winded so did not upload to sound cloud.

[Danley]

If you have means to record the sound it would help provide guidance - as Miles mentioned do you hear it only unplugged?

i would totally do that. but pulled the nut at the moment. maybe after reinstall.

on another note i put a wood shim under the trem plate and characteristic sound still remained. thought if i coupled plate to body something might change. nope.

ok, i put the nut back in and then spent way too much time recording many tests on this guitar. the most significant was the trem springs. https://soundcloud.com/cporro/sc-2-tests-trem-muted-001


also did a test where i struck one note, quickly muted it, and recorded how the other open strings resonated. basically how the vibration was going from one string, across the bridge and nut, and into the open strings. was a little long winded so did not upload to sound cloud.

Yep- Sounds like you figured it out with the springs I wouldn't expect just blocking the bridge would prevent the springs from having sympathetic vibrations; one of my Strats has the bridge completed locked down with five springs, and the springs still ring out that way. For me it's just part of the Strat (or Legacy/S500 etc.) character - but I'm speaking as a person who has way too many guitars to turn to when I don't want that

[dro]

Improved tone? Don't know. Bought one,
string spacing wider, didn't use it.