Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:29 pm
Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:44 pm
neutralomen wrote:Hello, all. I have been working on my frankenstein ASAT for years now.
I wanted this guitar to be a viable option for high gain stages, and those MFD singles get loud. Some years ago, I got my hands on an old
Cavalier pickup, and I think I made this particular guitar one of a kind!
Here's the thing. The humbucker, while it certainly works, sounds a little...dead? flat? there is no shimmer or life to it. I was told that it may
be because the pickup is so old, that a re-wiring and re-winding may bring it back to life.
Does anyone know if that will make a difference? Is it worth the time/money? While I'm at it, is there anything else I can do to refurbish the pickup?
I'm not married to the sound. I just wanted a noise-cancelling option that matched the neck pickup and fit in the slot, and this is the only option on the PLANET.
If these modifications "wind up"(no pun intended) making the sonic character totally different, not only am I ok with that, but I'm kind of excited.
Any advice/recommendations?
Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:57 pm
Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:51 pm
Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:04 pm
sam wrote:Hey neutralomen,
Just what I can see, that is one beautiful ASAT! Please post pic of full guitar and give a little history on how you put it together.
Looking forward to seeing more pics.
Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:06 pm
KenC wrote:In my experience the Cavalier bridge pickup should definitely not sound flat or dead. I wouldn't describe mine as shimmery, but there is no need to run a boost or overdrive pedal between my Cavalier and a tube amp.
I would think first about the wiring. I'm not sure how yours is wired up, but the only circuits Leo put these in had treble and bass pots.
Ken
Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:14 pm
Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:18 am
neutralomen wrote: I just wanted a noise-cancelling option that matched the neck pickup and fit in the slot,
Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:02 am
Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:04 am
KenC wrote:Personally, I would avoid rewinding unless I had at least two expert opinions that there was no other option. Keep in mind that Leo-era G&L pickups were wound by hand in the factory on a fixture that George Fullerton built, so having somebody (no matter how experienced) rewind it may give you a very different sound.
Out of curiosity, does your ASAT have a bathtub route or individual cavities for the pickups?
Ken
Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:52 am
Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:34 pm
Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:38 pm
Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:07 pm
CSVeteran wrote:neutralomen - you would only rewind a pickup if the winding has a break in it, in which case the pickup would be dead and you would have no impedance reading with an ohm meter.
Based on what you describe, you may have a phase issue which would interfere with the frequency response and create a dull sound. Mismatched pickups can cause these types of issues. Experiment by reversing the pickup leads. Check to make sure you have good solder connections and grounds. Most pickup issues relate to improper solder connection and not the pickups.
Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:11 pm
Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:27 pm
Elwood wrote:I gather the Rio Grande pups fit into the ASAT covers.
The angled offset bridge pickup looks like it would fit your cover.
I'd call them to confirm that.
Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:13 am
Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:09 pm
DanDoulogos wrote:I just want to rule out the obvious - does it only sound flat when you combine neck and bridge? If that's the case, I'd bet dollars to donuts the pickups are out of phase. If such is the case, just reverse the lead for the neck pickup, and all will sound right as rain.
If that isn't the case - I'd try playing with the bridge pickup height in the hope that the problem is physical orientation rather than with the pickup itself.
If adjusting the bridge pickup height does nothing, Then I'd trouble shoot the pickup itself. The reason you'd test the DCR is make sure that there isn't some extra resistance in the pickup. All a tone knob does is add resistance to the circuit which filters out the high end frequencies - if the pickup itself is showing a DCR of over 20K, something ain't right in there - and I'd suspect the leads. You can check each of the leads by testing for DCR between the tip of each lead wire and the solder blob where that wire is soldered to the pickup assembly. Shouldn't be getting any DCR in there at all. Anything shows up, and that'll be the problem (in which case you'd solder on a new lead).
If all looks well there, I'd double check the tone/volume circuit. Wiring to the wrong terminal on one of the pots might cause this, or perhaps failing to ground the volume pot properly - I'd be looking for instances where resistance is being unintentionally added to the circuit. You could put a meter across the jack and see what the DCR looks like with the bridge pickup selected and the tone and volume open wide. The DCR shouldn't be much more than the DCR of the bridge pickup. If you're seeing considerably more DCR over the jack - something isn't right in the circuit.
That's my guess at least. I'm no expert, these are the things I try based on the assumptions I'd make.
Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:27 pm
neutralomen wrote:DanDoulogos wrote:I just want to rule out the obvious - does it only sound flat when you combine neck and bridge? If that's the case, I'd bet dollars to donuts the pickups are out of phase. If such is the case, just reverse the lead for the neck pickup, and all will sound right as rain.
If that isn't the case - I'd try playing with the bridge pickup height in the hope that the problem is physical orientation rather than with the pickup itself.
If adjusting the bridge pickup height does nothing, Then I'd trouble shoot the pickup itself. The reason you'd test the DCR is make sure that there isn't some extra resistance in the pickup. All a tone knob does is add resistance to the circuit which filters out the high end frequencies - if the pickup itself is showing a DCR of over 20K, something ain't right in there - and I'd suspect the leads. You can check each of the leads by testing for DCR between the tip of each lead wire and the solder blob where that wire is soldered to the pickup assembly. Shouldn't be getting any DCR in there at all. Anything shows up, and that'll be the problem (in which case you'd solder on a new lead).
If all looks well there, I'd double check the tone/volume circuit. Wiring to the wrong terminal on one of the pots might cause this, or perhaps failing to ground the volume pot properly - I'd be looking for instances where resistance is being unintentionally added to the circuit. You could put a meter across the jack and see what the DCR looks like with the bridge pickup selected and the tone and volume open wide. The DCR shouldn't be much more than the DCR of the bridge pickup. If you're seeing considerably more DCR over the jack - something isn't right in the circuit.
That's my guess at least. I'm no expert, these are the things I try based on the assumptions I'd make.
Hah. You certainly sound like one to me!
Would it help the thread if I included audio of the pickups? It may be that this MFD offset humbuckers sounds like it should, and I'm just going mad.
Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:35 pm
Craig wrote:neutralomen wrote:DanDoulogos wrote:I just want to rule out the obvious - does it only sound flat when you combine neck and bridge? If that's the case, I'd bet dollars to donuts the pickups are out of phase. If such is the case, just reverse the lead for the neck pickup, and all will sound right as rain.
If that isn't the case - I'd try playing with the bridge pickup height in the hope that the problem is physical orientation rather than with the pickup itself.
If adjusting the bridge pickup height does nothing, Then I'd trouble shoot the pickup itself. The reason you'd test the DCR is make sure that there isn't some extra resistance in the pickup. All a tone knob does is add resistance to the circuit which filters out the high end frequencies - if the pickup itself is showing a DCR of over 20K, something ain't right in there - and I'd suspect the leads. You can check each of the leads by testing for DCR between the tip of each lead wire and the solder blob where that wire is soldered to the pickup assembly. Shouldn't be getting any DCR in there at all. Anything shows up, and that'll be the problem (in which case you'd solder on a new lead).
If all looks well there, I'd double check the tone/volume circuit. Wiring to the wrong terminal on one of the pots might cause this, or perhaps failing to ground the volume pot properly - I'd be looking for instances where resistance is being unintentionally added to the circuit. You could put a meter across the jack and see what the DCR looks like with the bridge pickup selected and the tone and volume open wide. The DCR shouldn't be much more than the DCR of the bridge pickup. If you're seeing considerably more DCR over the jack - something isn't right in the circuit.
That's my guess at least. I'm no expert, these are the things I try based on the assumptions I'd make.
Hah. You certainly sound like one to me!
Would it help the thread if I included audio of the pickups? It may be that this MFD offset humbuckers sounds like it should, and I'm just going mad.
Sure, do post some audio of the different pickup selections. For posting inline audio, see: Tutorial: Posting audio files.
BTW, did you verify that both pickups are wired correctly?
Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:46 pm
Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:56 am
Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:56 am
Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:11 am
Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:58 pm