12 String Thread

A couple weeks ago I got to play a new Fender XII - great experience which triggered me to break out the 12 strings in general (I tend to 'rediscover' the twelve string every few years.) Can't say I'm a huge acoustic player in general; they're just not very ergonomic for me due to the size of the body, require too many compromises to get them loud etc. to the point I would rather play a clean electric- So an electric XII string would seem ideal.

I'd love to pick up a Rickenbacker twelve or Strat XII one day, but can't say the new XIIs quite do it for me, due to reasons practical and petty:

• The original Electric XII had a beautiful, elegant twelve saddle bridge (each with individual intonation) terminating into a string-through sustain block; the new one? Has a basically 'off-the-shelf' twelve string bridge off everyone's Warmoth. Considering you could buy a Squier in the 90s (the Venus XII) with the accurate bridge, this is a disappointment
• They kept the stupidest 'flaw' of the original XII, which is the pickups are actually non-humbucking (despite the P-bass/Comanche design)
• The action needed to come down on the particular guitar I played, and the bridge looked like it could possibly not have enough room to do it. I don't have a problem shimming the neck, but this is a new guitar not to mention...
• It's sort of expensive; sure Mexico makes GREAT guitars now, but at the pricing the purpose is sort of defeated of making them in Mexico to begin with, IMO
• The body shape is not accurate if you look carefully; the bottom of the new guitar isn't offset at all, and this bugs me

On the other hand it looks gorgeous and sounds good Was glad to be able to play one. I would/will be tempted at half the price (if anyone is now listening, I would *love* to see a twelve-string Saddle-Lock bridge on an Espada )



Original Electric XII for reference:



So in the meantime I at least have two twelve strings; and since I don't nowadays keep guitars that do not have stories, here they are: '68 Yamaha FG260 slothead - MIJ. Oddly the US only got Taiwanese models (from what I understand,) but my dad purchased this new while stationed overseas, so this is what he got. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for these to have neck and bracing issues, so this one has a slight top belly and (more importantly) drastic need of neck reset.

Maybe ten years ago I got the action from about 1cm at the twelfth fret to ~3mm by shaving the bridge saddle, shimming the truss rod nut (maxed out) and ramping the bridge. So it's playable now - almost alarmingly so. It's a laminate top, yet on the whole it's a VERY light-weight guitar somehow, with a very bright, brilliant sound. Pretty much sounds the way a twelve should in my head.




Mitchell MD100S 12 . About ten years ago I had a friend who would come over to jam about every other night; at one point he brought the below guitar he'd just picked up from Guitar Center, which I was quick to admonish/inform him on the judgment of his purchase (as was my personality,) since it had a quite blatant crack on the top where it had been dropped.

It lived in my living room for a few months and gradually the crack spread to the point where it was no longer playable, as predicted. My friend joined the army and let me know I could keep the guitar when he left - and it sat for about a few years more until I took pity on it. On research, it actually was a pretty legitimate twelve string; solid top etc. so I priced a repair on the crack which came out basically perfect (though visible due to mineral-streaking from not taking care of it earlier.)

It sounds MUCH more mellow than the Yamaha and is a great deal heavier, despite the solid top. Almost too mellow, but could be the old strings on it at the moment. In any case, I've ordered some silk/steel Ernie Ball strings for both of them, since I sort of value playability above sound for these monsters; at least I have the action down to a good 2mm or so on this one (needed to also put a few washers behind the truss nut, to get the neck a bit flatter than it was; I probably took too much off the bass side of the saddle, and not enough off the treble side so may fashion a new bridge soon.)

Definitely needs to be played in; I'm having one of those moods where I feel like I should switch to twelves as my 'primary,' we'll see how long that lasts. It could result in the purchase of a Guild or possibly Taylor



Before Repair:



After:

Danley,

I share the same love for 12-string guitars. And as a G&L nut I am fortunate enough to have one of G&L 12-strings built by Dean Coy you can also read more about on the dcskunkworks page. Mine ais called [i]'Big Red'[/i and has some Z-coils hidden under the humbucker covers. It sounds amazing and is always ready to go ...

- Jos

The Beatles was my earliest major musical impact and so I also gravitated to the sound of a 12-string, but I never acquired one in spite of having tried quite a few in music stores. About a dozen years ago I took a chance on a used Daisy Rock 12-string. It was cheap and I thought that I cannot possibly lose much value buying it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uCsRh17PEo7SgOq_w8G06SSuQc5JhB-Y/view?usp=sharing

It came to me in excellent condition. The only problem was that the neck was tilted forward a bit so the action up the neck was high. I ended up putting a thin shim under the neck joint and that fixed the neck angle. I then did my usual setup on saddle, action, intonation, etc., and the instrument ended up playing very nicely and sounded decent. I still play it every so often. I used it in a recording I made in 2018 called Warm.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LUhWsuIC6dLOkk9NvdSdfJaB5VJlTte_/view?usp=sharing

Jos, the twelve looks great; for some reason the quality of the finish in the control cavity is very intriguing

Kit- I forgot the twelve string Daisy Rock exists. I had a different Daisy Rock for a time, but the neck just seemed too tiny to be comfortable (even at 24” 3/4 - somehow even a 24” Fender Mustang/Jaguar neck felt bigger in every dimension.) May have to look into one of those though.

Grumbling/thinking more about this - guess I was playing the above Mitchell 12 too much, the bridge is now peeled at the back I sunk about $150 into the top repair, so I can sink another hopefully <$100 to get the bridge glued (or I can do it myself, but with my present schedule I'd rather throw money at it) - and my previously 'free' guitar is now solidly in the same total cost bucket as having bought a new one of equivalent model.

In the meantime I played a new Fender Villager XII in black; it has a smaller body that's a lot more ergonomic for me, looks great, plays great etc. There's one online I might have to make an offer on - but really I need to do a bit of a gear purge (even if I don't buy it - and even if I do buy it, the Mitchell isn't really worth selling in its current state, or after repair so it will stay.)

Items on the chopping block will probably be: a small Vox combo I don't use as much any more, the pink Strat I bought last month to scavenge pickups from, a super-cheap Strat copy I might wind up donating if I can't sell it, and possibly a Breedlove Discovery dread; when I bought it a couple years ago I thought it was the best sounding acoustic in the room, but the body is a bit too big for me to be comfortable with (hence wanting a small-bodied 12 like the Villager) and it became a slight lemon with warranty repairs for two broken tuning machines, spontaneously loosened bracing causing rattles etc.

Hey Danley,

12 stringers have always intrigued me as well, based on Beatles and Byrds fan. Never cared for Rick necks so that would never happen, and my chasing ASAT's kept 12 stringers beyond arms length.

All said, I am envious of you 12 string owners. Being a modder, I have been looking at those 12 string Cozart's a lot more lately. I can see taking one of those and dropping in Z Coils or Big MFD's, gutting the electronics and adding some locking tuners to see where it goes. The search goes on...

Hey Danley,

12 stringers have always intrigued me as well, based on Beatles and Byrds fan. Never cared for Rick necks so that would never happen, and my chasing ASAT's kept 12 stringers beyond arms length.

All said, I am envious of you 12 string owners. Being a modder, I have been looking at those 12 string Cozart's a lot more lately. I can see taking one of those and dropping in Z Coils or Big MFD's, gutting the electronics and adding some locking tuners to see where it goes. The search goes on...

Funny- I never played a RIC (that wasn't a bass) till someone recently handed me two to try out; the first one was some more modern model (I forgot which) that supposedly had the 'better/improved' neck - and my reaction was just lukewarm. Then the guy handed me the guitar with the 'standard' RIC neck- which he shouldn't have done, as I fell in love Very thin, very flat, a lot of 'shoulder' - just about everything I like in a neck. Still only played 6 strings though.

Those Cozarts tempt me as well - I know Yamaha and Schecter also make some more reasonable-priced electric twelve strings, but the Cozarts being priced where they are can excuse a lot, especially if you intend to experiment with pickups etc. off the bat.

My electric 12-string is a Charvel Surfcaster 12 in Seafoam Green, MIJ (it's most likely a '92). The fretboard's easier for me to get around on than those of the two Rics I've had, and the stock Chandler lipstick pickups sound great.

My electric 12-string is a Charvel Surfcaster 12 in Seafoam Green, MIJ (it's most likely a '92). The fretboard's easier for me to get around on than those of the two Rics I've had, and the stock Chandler lipstick pickups sound great.

I forgot those existed - I love Surfcasters, they’re several of my all-time favorite guitars combined. I mentioned elsewhere, I did ultimately scratch my Villager itch and it’s one of my favorite guitars; likely the most comfortable acoustic (twelve strings or otherwise) I’ve had a chance to play



I still do want a guitar with Leo’s original XII design bridge, so have an eye out for the below:

Oh my gosh, I had a Squier Venus XII in that finish color (Shocking, right?) the year they came out! Liked everything about it except that melted blob of a body shape, which I eventually grew to hate (sure, you can't see it when you're playing the thing, but you still know it's there); ended up gifting it to a pal who was GASsing for a twelve-string -- gotta check in and see if he's still got it!

Oh my gosh, I had a Squier Venus XII in that finish color (Shocking, right?) the year they came out! Liked everything about it except that melted blob of a body shape, which I eventually grew to hate (sure, you can't see it when you're playing the thing, but you still know it's there); ended up gifting it to a pal who was GASsing for a twelve-string -- gotta check in and see if he's still got it!

Awesome - I love Seafoam and also happen to not mind the shape, though I know Courtney *cough* Love modeled it after her Mercury guitar. I hope yours is seeing good use :



In the meantime, I recognize another feat of Leo's in the Coronado XII bridge; behold:



Mustang bridge plate and all except the high B/E string saddles doubled for intonation. It happens to be on this gorgeous guitar I'm lusting after



The Coronado has a fascinating amount of one-off engineering in it, for how unpopular they were; they even got a style of Mustang-esque bridge on the six string models which somewhat acts as a precursor to the G&L saddle-lock:



(At varying points, Jazzmaster and rosewood bridges were also adapted.)

Howdy all - reviving the thread with a question, what gauge strings do you use on your electric twelves?
I'm in the final stages of building one at the moment, and overthinking string choice. I use Ernie Ball hybrid slinky 10.5 - 52 strings on my six string electric, and love the feel and tension. EB makes light (8 - 40) and medium (11-52) twelve string sets, D'addario makes a regular light (10-46) set.

I'm trying to decide between using a similar gauge (EB 11-52 or the D'addario) as the six string, or going for the lighter set to offset the extra tension and fretting effort with double the number of strings.I tune a half step down, so that'll help a bit. I'm also assuming that lighter strings on a twelve equals more "jangle", whereas the medium or regular light sets might be a more "balanced" sound from low to high strings?

If I was setting up a six string I'd just get both and try them out, but with the amount of work involved in setting up a twelve string I'm less keen to take that approach.
What are your preferences?

Cheers
Pat